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[Spoilers] Episode 104 Discussion


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5 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean, the spy is Mysaria.

The little boy following Daemon reported to her.

And she basically said she deals in information now.

And the fact that Otto is spying on them is treason, which Viserys points out.

The spy is Mysaria because she's a good source. Damon was gone for 4 years, Otto didn't hire her because of him. And again, no one had a way of knowing Rhaneyra would show up there. Your problem seems to be you apparently think the Dance of the Dragons is a story of the good guys (Blacks) facing the EEEEVIL Greens, and you're mad this show isn't reflecting it.

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Other than them apparently going for The Slowest Foreplay Scene Ever with Rhaenyra and Cole, I really enjoyed this episode.  The conversation/confrontation between Rhaenyra and Viserys really stands out.  It was the best "important people talking in politics in a decadent room" the GoT universe has done in a long time.  Everything Viserys said made sense and then Rhaenyra trumped him and got him to fire Otto.

I'm sure the not-quite-sex scene between Daemon and Rhaenyra in the brothel will get a lot of discussion - and considering the age difference of the actors it was definitely as creepy as it should have been - but I did like how at the end there they kind of snapped at each other like dragons.  Seemed like a weird but interesting touch.  And I like how they left it very much open to interpretation.

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11 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

The spy is Mysaria because she's a good source. Damon was gone for 4 years, Otto didn't hire her because of him. And again, no one had a way of knowing Rhaneyra would show up there.

Oh, glad this was mentioned recently enough for me to see it because I definitely meant to but forgot to mention it.  While it makes sense that Mysaria would be hired by Otto while Daemon was away, why would she inform ON Daemon to Otto?  Not sure what we're supposed to take from that.  If they're suggesting simple jealousy that seems out of character.  Or did Daemon want her to inform Otto?

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Oh, glad this was mentioned recently enough for me to see it because I definitely meant to but forgot to mention it.  While it makes sense that Mysaria would be hired by Otto while Daemon was away, why would she inform ON Daemon to Otto?  Not sure what we're supposed to take from that.  If they're suggesting simple jealousy that seems out of character.  Or did Daemon want her to inform Otto?

Mysaria has decided Daemon is an unreliable partner and is now building her own nest egg.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

At first I assumed the same, but Bloody Ben is 13 during the Dance, so he would be only a child at this time, if even born. So it ought to be Sam Blackwood. But I did like how they showed the never ending feud between the Blackwoods and the Brackens which certainly was reignited now.

 

 

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Oh duh I feel dumb now. I'm always bad at the timeline but Rhaenyra hasn't even had her kids yet!



well, they could have aged him up . 

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12 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Mysaria has decided Daemon is an unreliable partner and is now building her own nest egg.

Sure this makes sense right now in terms of the show - especially based on the morning after Daemon/Mysaria scene - but it presents some difficulties if we're supposed to believe Daemon trusts her in the future.  Perhaps he just has a blind eye when it comes to Mysaria, but if that's the case they need to do a much better job of establishing their relationship.

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2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Sure this makes sense right now in terms of the show - especially based on the morning after Daemon/Mysaria scene - but it presents some difficulties if we're supposed to believe Daemon trusts her in the future.  Perhaps he just has a blind eye when it comes to Mysaria, but if that's the case they need to do a much better job of establishing their relationship.

Daemon almost certainly will never put 2+2 together to realize Mysaria betrayed him. Which is a shame as it doesn't show him as very smart.

I wouldn't be surprised if Otto and Mysaria's deal falls through and she's the person who sends Blood and Cheese after his great-grandsons.

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5 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Which is a shame as it doesn't show him as very smart.

Right, that's my problem.  Not that I've ever thought of him as some type of genius, but if we're supposed to believe he has a pulse on the City Watch and goings on with the debauchery of KL - as the premise of the episode explicitly assumes - it's quite the stretch.

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

Right, that's my problem.  Not that I've ever thought of him as some type of genius, but if we're supposed to believe he has a pulse on the City Watch and goings on with the debauchery of KL - as the premise of the episode explicitly assumes - it's quite the stretch.

There's an entire Sherlock Holmes story about how the Master Detective is having difficulty solving a case because the man responsible is, if not Holmes' level, certainly a genius in his own right but doesn't seem to have gotten away with the crime. Holmes eventually figures it out that he was killed by his ex-girlfriend that he recruited for the crime because he could never imagine he'd lost her affections.

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1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Holmes eventually figures it out that he was killed by his ex-girlfriend that he recruited for the crime because he could never imagine he'd lost her affections.

Like I said, perhaps he has a blind eye for Mysaria, that obviously isn't a new trope.  But if that's the case they've done a very bad job establishing such a relationship thus far.  In episode two all he does is use her and in this one doesn't seem to give a shit either.  Definitely doesn't seem he'd care enough about her to have such a blind spot.

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3 minutes ago, DMC said:

Like I said, perhaps he has a blind eye for Mysaria, that obviously isn't a new trope.  But if that's the case they've done a very bad job establishing such a relationship thus far.  In episode two all he does is use her and in this one doesn't seem to give a shit either.  Definitely doesn't seem he'd care enough about her to have such a blind spot.

Yeah, I wasn't even sure if Daemon was just dropping on his ex-girlfriend's house three years later.

Which would have been an interesting twist on that.

Daemon: Hey Mysaria!

Mysaria: ITS BEEN THREE YEARS!

Daemon: Yep. *kiss*

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CT PHIPPS' REVIEW:

https://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2022/09/house-of-dragon-1x4-king-of-narrow-sea.html

"KING OF THE NARROW SEA" is the fourth episode of House of the Dragon and when things get SPICY. Unfortunately, for those who love hot and steamy Game of Thrones sex, it is sex that is frequently made unappealing due to the fact it shows the power imbalances as well as grosser element to Westeros. After all, one of the scenes is between an uncle and his niece, another between a gangrenous old man and his young bride, and the third is between a man who can't say no to his superior. Oh there's also an orgy but that's just background noise on HBO by now.

The premise is Rhaenyra Targaryen is taking her quest for a husband less than seriously. She is hosting whole hosts of noble lords and insulting them while treating it as an episode of The Bachlorette, Westerosi edition. Unfortunately, for the nobles, she has no interest in getting married and this is all a game. A game that turns deadly serious in a conflict between a Bracken and Blackwood suitor. Mind you, as a fan of the books, I'm well and truly sick of the Blackwood bias and wish the Brackens would go Red Wedding on them.

Daemon Targaryen has returned as "King of the Narrow Seas" but turns around the perception he is an upstart by laying his ground before his brother's feet. Unfortunately, whatever good will he gets from that is something that he quickly squanders by taking Rhaenyra on a tour of the city's taverns as well as brothels. A scene that results in her having what may or may not have been consummated sex with Daemon but does lead to actual sex with Criston Cole. This gets her spied upon by what is implied to be Daemon's mistress, Mysaria, who reports it to Otto Hightower. What follows is a show of the double standard between men and women in Westeros regarding consensual sex.

This is an episode without much in the way of dragons or violence but does a lot to forward the characters' arcs. I'm glad there's no real time skip this time and we can follow up on the events of previous episodes. Time skips were inevitable but I felt like they were harming our connection to the protagonists. That's rectified and we have some much-needed focus on the relationships between Alicent-Rhaenyra, Rhaenyra-Daemon, Rhaenyra-Criston, Viserys-Alicent, and Viserys-Otto. They are a very-very twisted bunch and a tangled web of allegiances that finally reach their breaking point.

The subtext that Rhaenyra's fear of marriage and intimacy is due to her mother's horrific death is made text and Daemon helps educate her that sex can be pleasurable. However, it is also muddled by the fact that he's planning to ruin her reputation in hopes of being able to marry her. Daemon pulls back (or perhaps "out") at the last second, though, because he realizes it's wrong. This just leaves Rhaenyra horny as all get out and sends her into her favorite Kingsguard's arms. Ser Cole, who is only there by Rhaenyra's patronage, doesn't exactly have the opportunity to say no either.

Meanwhile, Alient Hightower's marriage is shown from her perspective and it is an utterly miserable horror show. Viserys is slowly rotting away from the inside and out but his sexual urges are undiminished. Alicent also reacts with visible jealousy to Rhaenyra's dismissive attitude to her suitors. She also spends a good deal of time drinking wine and becoming ever more Cersei like in her attitudes. Plus, when given a choice between her father and best friend, she of course chooses her father.

Otto Hightower also badly misjudges his position with Viserys as he gets what he believes is the perfect bit of news to get Rhaenyra disinherited, only to find himself under attack for spying on the royal family. The fact Rhaenyra knows that Ser Otto is plotting against her results in her first victory in the game of thrones by getting him thrown out of his position. It, sadly, comes at the cost of agreeing to an advantageous marriage.

Solid episode, lots of good character-building and plot advancement.

9/10

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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6 minutes ago, DMC said:

I've always wondered about Tinder.  Is it just ancient men and 13 year old boys?  If so maybe I got a shot...

The joke on last weeks' She-Hulk is that Tatiana Maseney not getting any Tinder matches as herself wasn't ridiculous because she's a snack in RL.

But because she was a woman on Tinder alone.

:)

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Really enjoyed Rhaenyra seducing Criston Cole. It had an almost Succubus-like quality to it since there was no talking there, the guy simply had no idea what was going on and, most likely, has a million of questions in his mind right he would like to have an answer to.

If there was a proper talk they might have been able to figure things out but one can understand how this whole started to spin and twist in the guy's mind. One does hope that Dunk and Daella take a less from that if they ever get something going...

Milly Alcock really sells to me the idea that this is still 14-year-old Rhaenyra, not a woman bordering on 20 now, especially in the page disguise ... but also in the seduction scene. I actually enjoyed that because this is a teenager exploring her sexuality and her sexual desires.

Alicent really gets more and more sympathetic, although the 'you Targaryens have queer customs' quote is somewhat telling. She does envy Rhaenyra her freedom, something she was never permitted and she, apparently, cannot bring herself to take now that she is queen. Because so far she still doesn't seem to have a real grasp what power that role gives her. I guess her talks with Rhaenyra really shows that their friendship is the strongest bond she has at court, and Viserys is, well, little to nothing to her, at least in the sexual department.

In light of the fact that Princess Alyssa is finally referenced, it is kind of odd that the royals do hold their own women to the same standards as other noblewomen. The Heir Apparent remains the Heir Apparent if the king wishes it, no matter how soiled she might be. Her hand would still be the way to the throne, so folks would still find her desirable. That is actually something even Saera understood ... and she was heir to nothing.

Now, for international politics - the book idea that Rhaenyra marry the heir to Dorne - a slutty reputation might be a problem, but not for marriages with lords who cannot afford to insult the king nor for members in the royal family who must do as he commands.

3 hours ago, RumHam said:

I assume Daemon lied in an effort to get Viserys to agree to let him marry Rhaenyra? ...Odd tactic! And then you have to wonder why he hesitated to sleep with her.

I imagine for the same reason why George Clooney didn't fuck Juliette Lewis, if you get my meaning...

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4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Really enjoyed Rhaenyra seducing Criston Cole. It had an almost Succubus-like quality to it since there was no talking there, the guy simply had no idea what was going on and, most likely, has a million of questions in his mind right he would like to have an answer to.

A very uncharitable and non-romantic reading is that Ser Cole has no interest in Rhaenyra but is a low-born knight who was only given his position due to Rhaenyra's patronage and refusing her advances could get him removed from the Kingsguard (even if he did nothing wrong).

Quote

Milly Alcock really sells to me the idea that this is still 14-year-old Rhaenyra, not a woman bordering on 20 now, especially in the page disguise ... but also in the seduction scene. I actually enjoyed that because this is a teenager exploring her sexuality and her sexual desires.

Apparently, to illustrate her "aging", they actually were binding her breasts in the earlier scenes filmed.

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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