Jump to content

[Spoilers] Episode 104 Discussion


Ran
 Share

Recommended Posts

Look, Lord Bracken on the screen. I wonder if he's gonna be an arseho....oh, he's dead.

House Blackwood for the W, I guess.

Ain't no bias in this episode, just scroll forward. I'm sure the show won't be reinforcing that attitude later on with some Blackwood kiddo being a gigachad or something. No chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The best thing about HotD is how it makes me sympathetic to Alicent. Actually it makes me cheer for her, wishing her best. Which, book never did. And honestly, we are getting an incredible context to everything she will do in the future.

Between Viserys' public humiliation, marital rape, Haelena's health issues, and Rhaenyra's lies... Add pressure by Otto, and previously established psychological issues and you get a young woman, lost in the world, where everyone around her is not treating her with modicum of respect.

Freedom was a big theme in the episode. When Rhaenyra complained about men, Alicent reminds her that women in the realm are lucky if they get to choose between 2, let alone dozens of men. There is a parallel between how they shot Aemma dying and the non-consensual intercourse between Alicent and Viserys. That bird perspective shot on blooded bed of Aemma and Alicent's face while Viserys is on top of her just reiterates the tragedy of the most powerful woman in Westeros - the Queen.

The ending was perfect for me. Orwyle bringing Moon tea to Rhaenyra was such a powerful statement about Viserys - yeah, honey, he did what you made him do, but no, he is not buying your sh*t. And Rhaenyra knows it. The camera work could have been better in this scene, to be a bit more effective, the the point made was simply brilliant. 

As people said, we are setting up the Dance in a brilliant way. It is slowly brewing, but the inevitability of the confilct has become clear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

Rhaenyra is no rightful heir, she has to do her due deligiance to earn the throne like any successor

Talking about unfair standards. Rhaenyra is the only successor that actually has to work for it.

This may be the best episode yet.  This show has gotten me feeling pity of Alicent of all people.  I just don't know anymore.

Btw, I saw the sex scene between Cole and Rhaenyra and it reminded me of Arianne and her Kg. The Kg unwillingly to betray his vows but enjoying every moment of it, hell isn't the man smiling? Ofc when clarity hits back, the guilt comes back so...

 

Edited by frenin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fully support Rhaenyra’s claim to the throne. But when you compare her to someone such as, say, Alysanne, and how she handled being queen at an even younger age, Rhaenyra clearly falls short by quite a margin. Or even someone like Sansa—consider how she handles less-than-ideal suitors in the books and then compare that to Rhaenyra’s behavior at Storm’s End.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I fully support Rhaenyra’s claim to the throne. But when you compare her to someone such as, say, Alysanne, and how she handled being queen at an even younger age, Rhaenyra clearly falls short by quite a margin. Or even someone like Sansa—consider how she handles less-than-ideal suitors in the books and then compare that to Rhaenyra’s behavior at Storm’s End.

I'm not quite sure if I actually support Rhaenyra's claim from an in-universe point of view, to be honest. If anything, I feel like I would have supported Rhaenys' claim. There are times when I feel like she got robbed even harder than Rhaenyra, since, unlike Rhaenyra, Rhaenys actually was her father's (the Prince of Dragonstone) only child. In fact, you could argue that Rhaenys is another Matilda, while Viserys is another Stephen of Blois.

Edited by zajaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

fully support Rhaenyra’s claim to the throne. But when you compare her to someone such as, say, Alysanne, and how she handled being queen at an even younger age,

She reminds me of an spoiled Jaeharys actually, Jaeharys's stunt to blindside, alienate and humiliate his most powerful supporters and the Church just because he wants and only wants Alysanne.

I wonder what would people act if she pulled that move, given that she's being ripped for this lol.

That being said, they could do a little more "Realm's delight" and a little less brat princess. It can only work so long.

 

24 minutes ago, zajaz said:

There are times when I feel like she got robbed even harder than Rhaenyra

I mean she was. Then again, hereditary monarchy is stupid so having an arbitrary gender rule for who gets the chair doesn't bother me that much.

If the Greens had followed Jaeharys's footsteps instead of committing a coup and leading the continent perhaps I could side with them?

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On twitter Rhaenyra is more praised than ever for being sexually liberated and lying and posters are actually dissing Alicent for being otherwise.

As i read someone's post. I too felt bad for Rhaenyra. Daemon left her half naked in that strange brothel alone to fend for herself. Daemon was the creator of the whole mess.

 

So while seeing next episode trailer, it seems someone falls from a horse. It seems like a male but.

Spoiler

It could actually be Rhea Royce. Given her fate. And Daemon was in Vale looking landscape in that trailer. Makes sense that Daemon marries Laena as well in next episode. It might be offscreen though.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone else think that it was Alicent who sent the maester with the moon/tansy tea?  She could have easily told him that it was on the King’s order.  Maybe it was a plot to create distrust among father and daughter.  Or it could have been a way of protecting Rhaenyra, just in case.  Their relationship seemed to improve in this episode.

I am also wondering how they are going to split Rhaenyra and Sir Cole up.  In the book, he never threw away his Kingsguard vow.

Anyone else notice in the sneak peek of next weeks episode when Otto told Alicent ,”The King is dying.”  Why would he say that now when Viserys lives for at least ten more years?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In context, I think Alicent is even going to have more issues with Rhaenyra's freedom in her open marriage considering she knows nothing of that kind at all.

But I think their entire arc has been botched by cutting so much material. Episode 2 clearly set up a rift between them due to the marriage betrayal which was then apparently confirmed by episode 3 since they cut the wedding dress scenes.

In episode 4 they are clearly friends again, which comes as a considerable surprise.

It seems to be kind of strange that Alicent doesn't really grow into her role as queen at all. Queens are wives, in the end, and have to suffer marital intercourse ... but they are queens nonetheless. By that time Queen Alicent might lack 'friends', but should have favorites and companions aplenty ... and her own coterie of supporters cherishing her for the simple fact that she gave the king and the Realm a male heir.

Alicent should have been at the center of attention during the royal hunt last episode.

I really like how they set up Alicent as the chaste woman, the dutiful wife as the villain. In such a society such women are the ones beyond reproach, the ones defending male honor, doing their duty, living only for their husband and sons.

2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I fully support Rhaenyra’s claim to the throne. But when you compare her to someone such as, say, Alysanne, and how she handled being queen at an even younger age, Rhaenyra clearly falls short by quite a margin. Or even someone like Sansa—consider how she handles less-than-ideal suitors in the books and then compare that to Rhaenyra’s behavior at Storm’s End.

Alysanne ran away with her own brother and pretty much spat in the face of her betrothed, the most honorable Ser Orryn Baratheon. Rhaenyra must have been the royal who faced the largest army of suitors prior to Aegon III. That she tires of the thing does make sense, especially if the candidates in question ridicule themselves during their presentation.

The whole suitor tour feels like nonsense in context. Viserys actually wants the Velaryon match since the last episode, so a suitor tour should chronologically have come before the Lannister match. Have the girl look up potential matches of her own, then narrow it down to the best candidates, and eventually announce a betrothal.

Could have worked much better if we had actually seen Rhaenyra doing a royal progress and being approached by (unwanted) suitors all the time.

It seems they finally start giving Rhaenyra her own nervous thing with the rings from the portrait description. She starts doing that when she is bored.

Regarding the issue about Rhaenyra being alone with Criston earlier:

Folks don't view KG as men who seduce or lie with princesses - nor other sworn shields, or else society would not permit them. The issue in the episode at hand is that Rhaenyra was disguised and out without proper supervision in questionable places, especially brothels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

In context, I think Alicent is even going to have more issues with Rhaenyra's freedom in her open marriage considering she knows nothing of that kind at all.

But I think their entire arc has been botched by cutting so much material. Episode 2 clearly set up a rift between them due to the marriage betrayal which was then apparently confirmed by episode 3 since they cut the wedding dress scenes.

In episode 4 they are clearly friends again, which comes as a considerable surprise.

It seems to be kind of strange that Alicent doesn't really grow into her role as queen at all. Queens are wives, in the end, and have to suffer marital intercourse ... but they are queens nonetheless. By that time Queen Alicent might lack 'friends', but should have favorites and companions aplenty ... and her own coterie of supporters cherishing her for the simple fact that she gave the king and the Realm a male heir.

Alicent should have been at the center of attention during the royal hunt last episode.

I really like how they set up Alicent as the chaste woman, the dutiful wife as the villain. In such a society such women are the ones beyond reproach, the ones defending male honor, doing their duty, living only for their husband and sons.

Alysanne ran away with her own brother and pretty much spat in the face of her betrothed, the most honorable Ser Orryn Baratheon. Rhaenyra must have been the royal who faced the largest army of suitors prior to Aegon III. That she tires of the thing does make sense, especially if the candidates in question ridicule themselves during their presentation.

The whole suitor tour feels like nonsense in context. Viserys actually wants the Velaryon match since the last episode, so a suitor tour should chronologically have come before the Lannister match. Have the girl look up potential matches of her own, then narrow it down to the best candidates, and eventually announce a betrothal.

Could have worked much better if we had actually seen Rhaenyra doing a royal progress and being approached by (unwanted) suitors all the time.

It seems they finally start giving Rhaenyra her own nervous thing with the rings from the portrait description. She starts doing that when she is bored.

Regarding the issue about Rhaenyra being alone with Criston earlier:

Folks don't view KG as men who seduce or lie with princesses - nor other sworn shields, or else society would not permit them. The issue in the episode at hand is that Rhaenyra was disguised and out without proper supervision in questionable places, especially brothels.

Alysanne took up initiative from the time she was a preteen with diplomacy, religion, study, etc. All we’ve seen Rhaenyra do so far is sulk.

I don’t know if this is true, but the rumor I heard is that they cut the additional scenes from E2 for editing purposes. If so, that’s a real shame, and they should have dropped the season later in the year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here’s one huge positive from this episode: Daemon looks waaaay better with short hair. That was a much better wig, and it’s a shame that it looks like they’ll only be keeping it for an episode or two.

 I’ll probably miss him once he’s gone, but I’ve about had my fill of Viserys at this point. I’m tired of all his brooding and pouting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Regarding the issue about Rhaenyra being alone with Criston earlier:

Folks don't view KG as men who seduce or lie with princesses - nor other sworn shields, or else society would not permit them. The issue in the episode at hand is that Rhaenyra was disguised and out without proper supervision in questionable places, especially brothels.

That might be true, but there is already a precedent (in the books, that is. Perhaps no such thing happened in the show universe) of a Princess being giving way her virtue or being "wanton", and a Kingsguard member being breaking his vows. So one would guess people should know that Princess and Kingsguards are just average people (concerning sexual matters). I feel like Rhaenyra spending all night long alone with a Kingsguard should raise some eyebrows (at the least the eyebrows of wiser or more "distrustful" people, if they were to know about the whole thing).

Edited by zajaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...