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[Spoilers] Episode 104 Discussion


Ran
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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

is anywhere near the same kind of phenomenon that GOT was here.

There were very few think pieces for GoT in its first season compared to GoT in its later seasons, whereas this first season of HotD is definitely getting more of that than the comparable GoT season (since there now exists a GoT-centric media ecosystem), and to my cursory look it seems HotD has so far engendered more mainstream commentary than RotP has, another show tied to a pre-existing property.

To some degree it takes time for these things to develop when you're new, even if you are part of a franchise. Do I expect HotD to reach the heights of popularity of GoT? No, that was lightning in a bottle, and this story is no more than 4 seasons long, which means it has less time to build (as it should). 

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7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Even though HOTD is a lot more popular than Rings of Power in the US, I don’t think HOTD is anywhere near the same kind of phenomenon that GOT was here.

But again, the viewership numbers are on par with seasons 5-6 of GoT, which is fantastic. The difference is that the audience for HotD is skewing older and thus doesn't have the same online presence as younger people, which is why there is less discussion about HotD on the internet. In my humble opinion, of course.

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At least this episode won't have a huge time skip where important character and plot development happens off screen. 

People are excited now because the show promises new things every week. But once the whole thing is out and people have time to sit on it I don't think it will be remembered fondly. It's just not well planned out and haphazard with hit and miss scenes alongside redundant conversations.  

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25 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

It's just not well planned out and haphazard with hit and miss scenes alongside redundant conversations.  

Yeah, I do enjoy all the episodes individually, but the plot structure is a bit of a mess. There is speculation that Blood and Cheese will happen at the beginning of next season, but in order for that to work, viewer need to care about Helaena and her children. And yet she's still a baby herself midway through this season.

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13 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

viewer need to care about Helaena and her children. And yet she's still a baby herself midway through this season.

Given what they seem to be doing with her from what we saw in episode 6, I suspect people actually will care. She's very distinctive.

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25 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Yeah, I do enjoy all the episodes individually, but the plot structure is a bit of a mess. There is speculation that Blood and Cheese will happen at the beginning of next season, but in order for that to work, viewer need to care about Helaena and her children. And yet she's still a baby herself midway through this season.

I mean .. I totally understand why they have chosen this structure. but they at least needed more episodes ... I refuse to believe it would have been impossible for HBO . but man , there will be some characters that no one will even remember ,namely Laena , Laenor and Harwin . "Bronze Bitch" has more presence than those 3!  I doubt anyone would care for their deaths especially that in universe they'll be merely obstacles in way of Daemon/Rhaenyra . but then there are Luke and Helaena who have to be fleshed out before season ends . it'll be quite an accomplishment if they make people actually care for Helaena and Luke in 5 episodes .

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2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

in order for that to work, viewer need to care about Helaena and her children. And yet she's still a baby herself midway through this season.

Not sure about that. This scene "worked" for me in Fire and Blood, and there Helaena was just a name that had been mentioned a couple of times. This is an extremely dramatic situation that I think it should be easy to emphatize with.

As I see it, the impact of the moment will be much more dependant on the skills of Helaena's actress than the amount of time we've spent with her beforehand.

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7 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

At least this episode won't have a huge time skip where important character and plot development happens off screen. 

People are excited now because the show promises new things every week. But once the whole thing is out and people have time to sit on it I don't think it will be remembered fondly. It's just not well planned out and haphazard with hit and miss scenes alongside redundant conversations.  

If HOTD fails to stick the landing, people will look back and complain about all the things they’re ignoring now and use it as evidence that the show was “destined to fail.” It’s like all the #boatsex people who used to ship Jonerys that now claim the two had no chemistry and were poorly written. 

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14 hours ago, Ran said:

...and this story is no more than 4 seasons long...

So there's no chance they go into the recency with a post-war season, right? It seems unlikely to me but then when networks have a hit show they usually want to keep it going. They're gonna have all the sets and at least most of the cast...wishful thinking but I hope they keep going.

Plus like take Nettles for example. Just flying off to parts unknown isn't a very good ending for what I assume will be a popular character. Are they just gonna leave little Viserys missing and presumed dead? Very curious how they'll wrap this up. 

Another question I've been meaning to ask: Game of Thrones eliminated Jaehaerys II (did we ever get a reason?) and invented Maegor III do you think they'll stick to that for these prequel shows? I'd rather they just ignore it if it ever comes up. 

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46 minutes ago, RumHam said:

So there's no chance they go into the recency with a post-war season, right? It seems unlikely to me but then when networks have a hit show they usually want to keep it going. They're gonna have all the sets and at least most of the cast...wishful thinking but I hope they keep going.

Plus like take Nettles for example. Just flying off to parts unknown isn't a very good ending for what I assume will be a popular character. Are they just gonna leave little Viserys missing and presumed dead? Very curious how they'll wrap this up. 

Another question I've been meaning to ask: Game of Thrones eliminated Jaehaerys II (did we ever get a reason?) and invented Maegor III do you think they'll stick to that for these prequel shows? I'd rather they just ignore it if it ever comes up. 

They could make Maegor II a joke about or reference to Aerion’s son Maegor, who technically was next in line after Maekar.

I think that S4 will include a condensed Regency. I could see S3 ending with Rhaenyra’s death, but only if they think people will still watch the show without her and Daemon. If not, she and Aegon will probably both die during the last season.

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28 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

They could make Maegor II a joke about or reference to Aerion’s son Maegor, who technically was next in line after Maekar.

I think that S4 will include a condensed Regency. I could see S3 ending with Rhaenyra’s death, but only if they think people will still watch the show without her and Daemon. If not, she and Aegon will probably both die during the last season.

I'm pretty sure it was III though which implies two more. Plus wasn't it Tywin speaking? Not a big jokester. 

I feel like the only people who are going to notice are the same people who would just assume they ignore it and go back to the books version of the history. Such a bizarre pointless change. 

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2 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I'm pretty sure it was III though which implies two more. Plus wasn't it Tywin speaking? Not a big jokester. 

I feel like the only people who are going to notice are the same people who would just assume they ignore it and go back to the books version of the history. Such a bizarre pointless change. 

Well, they retconned Jaehaerys II back into existence, so I guess they can retcon Maegor II out of it. 
 

Side note, but it appears that Egg named his younger sons after kings he admired (Jaehaerys I and Daeron II). Who would have been the next, Viserys II? I’m surprised he didn’t name either of his daughters Alysanne.

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9 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I mean .. I totally understand why they have chosen this structure. but they at least needed more episodes ... I refuse to believe it would have been impossible for HBO . but man , there will be some characters that no one will even remember ,namely Laena , Laenor and Harwin . "Bronze Bitch" has more presence than those 3!  I doubt anyone would care for their deaths especially that in universe they'll be merely obstacles in way of Daemon/Rhaenyra . but then there are Luke and Helaena who have to be fleshed out before season ends . it'll be quite an accomplishment if they make people actually care for Helaena and Luke in 5 episodes .

Laena, Laenor and Harwin aren't actually important characters, though. They're the parents (or non-parent, in one case) of important characters.

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5 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Laena, Laenor and Harwin aren't actually important characters, though. They're the parents (or non-parent, in one case) of important characters.

I agree that they are not important on their own . same as Luke . but these people's death should have an affect on their loved ones . and that can hardly be explored if they come off as convenience deaths. for example you got Corlys and Rhaenys who despite always hoping to get their blood on the throne, never had actually entered a war for it , now they team up with their in laws even though their grandkids aren't even their grandkids . and on the other hand , you have Larys Strong , a pretty mysterious guy in the dance, it's fair to assume his brother and father's death has some affect on him . and he , like Corlys/Rhaenys , should have an opinion about Strong princes .

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