[Poll] How would you rate episode 104?

[Ran]

What'd you think?

[butterweedstrover]

I graded it pretty low but it was in retrospect a good episode. 

Much better than the previous three, actual strong dialogue. 

[rumple9]

Gets worse every week

[TormundsWoman]

The way they adapted the Damon / Rhaenyra speculation  from the Mushroom’s account was really well.

I liked it so much better that it wasn’t for half year that Damon stayed and bought his way into Rhaenyra’s heart with tales of his exploits and gifts from across the Narrow Sea and daily rides on dragons. It was still in character, so depravedly he WAS trying to show her that there is a life outside of the palace, there is enjoyment in the act of sex for both men and woman without the purpose of squeezing out heirs and there is still a choice after marriage.
 

Mind you he failed to impress on her that rules for men and Women drastically differ if you are caught… but there was substance to the interaction and there was more than teaching her how to please a man as Mushroom told it.

Rhaenyra’s curiosity and the scene with Criston was frankly perfectly set and endearing, a very sincere young love scene. I cannot believe how that will turn out just looking at it now.

Rhaenyra / Viserys / Otto - well done scenes. I enjoyed them tremendously because let’s face it Ser Otto deserved it and Viserys grew some big balls and rose to Rhaenyra’s standard and challenge: I do my part, you do yours. Hats off to all three actors. They nailed it. And the young Rhaenyra actress is so talented holding her own against Paddy!

They DO make Alicent much  more mellow and sympathetic. Here is she a real of Otto’s manipulation. I assume she’ll turn on Rhaenyra when she figures out Criston Cole situation rather than pure ambition for her son to be on the throne.

All in all, I gave it a 9. You’d think it would be a slow ep, but for me it passed really fast. 

 

[DMC]

9/10, and this time a hard 9.  They're doing a great job showing how you can understand virtually every main character's motivations and even behavior, which is exactly how a Martin-verse show should be.  Still not quite as good as GoT's first four seasons, but it's getting there. 

Indeed, the more I think about the episode the more I like it.  They're showing not only how the conflicts between the characters all make sense from their respective POV's, but how each character is internally conflicted (well, other than Otto).  Just as the famous quote Martin emphasizes subscribes.

[C.T. Phipps]

CT PHIPPS' REVIEW:

https://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2022/09/house-of-dragon-1x4-king-of-narrow-sea.html

"KING OF THE NARROW SEA" is the fourth episode of House of the Dragon and when things get SPICY. Unfortunately, for those who love hot and steamy Game of Thrones sex, it is sex that is frequently made unappealing due to the fact it shows the power imbalances as well as grosser element to Westeros. After all, one of the scenes is between an uncle and his niece, another between a gangrenous old man and his young bride, and the third is between a man who can't say no to his superior. Oh there's also an orgy but that's just background noise on HBO by now.

The premise is Rhaenyra Targaryen is taking her quest for a husband less than seriously. She is hosting whole hosts of noble lords and insulting them while treating it as an episode of The Bachlorette, Westerosi edition. Unfortunately, for the nobles, she has no interest in getting married and this is all a game. A game that turns deadly serious in a conflict between a Bracken and Blackwood suitor. Mind you, as a fan of the books, I'm well and truly sick of the Blackwood bias and wish the Brackens would go Red Wedding on them.

Daemon Targaryen has returned as "King of the Narrow Seas" but turns around the perception he is an upstart by laying his ground before his brother's feet. Unfortunately, whatever good will he gets from that is something that he quickly squanders by taking Rhaenyra on a tour of the city's taverns as well as brothels. A scene that results in her having what may or may not have been consummated sex with Daemon but does lead to actual sex with Criston Cole. This gets her spied upon by what is implied to be Daemon's mistress, Mysaria, who reports it to Otto Hightower. What follows is a show of the double standard between men and women in Westeros regarding consensual sex.

This is an episode without much in the way of dragons or violence but does a lot to forward the characters' arcs. I'm glad there's no real time skip this time and we can follow up on the events of previous episodes. Time skips were inevitable but I felt like they were harming our connection to the protagonists. That's rectified and we have some much-needed focus on the relationships between Alicent-Rhaenyra, Rhaenyra-Daemon, Rhaenyra-Criston, Viserys-Alicent, and Viserys-Otto. They are a very-very twisted bunch and a tangled web of allegiances that finally reach their breaking point.

The subtext that Rhaenyra's fear of marriage and intimacy is due to her mother's horrific death is made text and Daemon helps educate her that sex can be pleasurable. However, it is also muddled by the fact that he's planning to ruin her reputation in hopes of being able to marry her. Daemon pulls back (or perhaps "out") at the last second, though, because he realizes it's wrong. This just leaves Rhaenyra horny as all get out and sends her into her favorite Kingsguard's arms. Ser Cole, who is only there by Rhaenyra's patronage, doesn't exactly have the opportunity to say no either.

Meanwhile, Alient Hightower's marriage is shown from her perspective and it is an utterly miserable horror show. Viserys is slowly rotting away from the inside and out but his sexual urges are undiminished. Alicent also reacts with visible jealousy to Rhaenyra's dismissive attitude to her suitors. She also spends a good deal of time drinking wine and becoming ever more Cersei like in her attitudes. Plus, when given a choice between her father and best friend, she of course chooses her father.

Otto Hightower also badly misjudges his position with Viserys as he gets what he believes is the perfect bit of news to get Rhaenyra disinherited, only to find himself under attack for spying on the royal family. The fact Rhaenyra knows that Ser Otto is plotting against her results in her first victory in the game of thrones by getting him thrown out of his position. It, sadly, comes at the cost of agreeing to an advantageous marriage.

Solid episode, lots of good character-building and plot advancement.

9/10

Edited September 12, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

That has got to be the worst opening of this show so far... Are dumb&dumber on the writing room again? Awfull, vulgar dialogue among high lords while they are courting The Princess...

High Lords killing each other like it's nothing, means nothing, no consequence. This show wants to portrait all men to be idiots who kill each other without thought, that's the only way the Laidies can seem reasonable in comparison for the writers.
They are ruining all the world building with the low IQ writing.

Did we really need 30 min softcore porn scenes that never end and lack meaning? Half of it would be more than enough to get the point across.

Slow, badly paced episode once again. Seems to be getting worse every week...
Lack of good dialogue, lack of plot, half of the episode feels like filler.

Again with the prophecy retcon that we all know goes nowhere. This doesn't work because we all know the McGuffin goes nowhere, it's just filler for filler sake, or to trick people that didn't watch GOT into thinking there is something deep behind. So lame and pointless.

[Ser Graymax]

So the Maester/Doctor shown at the end couldnt tell if Rhaenyra was still a "maiden" or not and end the question?  Of course we know she is not courtesy of Ser Cole (cant imagine that ending well for him) and that would prove her "sullied" for her arranged marriage and embarrass the crown even more but the idea was  not even brought up.

A good episode of the House of Cards, ehr House of the Dragon for me.  A solid 8/10.  BTW, love scenes were directed by a woman so very soft and lasting a long time.  NTTIABT

BTW, did you Catch the "Do you want to know how you die, little girl?" line?

Edited September 12, 2022 by Ser Graymax

[The hairy bear]

I gave it a 7. Good, but not spectacular.

[Cashless Society]

I gave it a 9. I think this might be the best episode of the season as there aren't any real flaws with the episode other than personal preferences. 

For me that was them again linking this show with the original show, why do they have to remind me about how bad that show got?

And Rhaenyra's commoner costume took me out of the show. It made me feel as though I was watching a Charles Dickens adaptation rather than medieval-inspired fantasy.

[Isildur's Mane]

I gave it a 9/10 - it's my favourite episode so far. 

I like how they chose to adapt some of the more ambiguous scenes from the book. 

 

[butterweedstrover]

10 hours ago, rumple9 said:

Gets worse every week

lol.

[Ser Not Appearing]

Haven't decided what I want to rate this one.

It definitely set up a lot of stuff but it wasn't satisfying to me. Even my wife, who never really comments negatively about a show, said afterwards that the episode could have been 15 minutes long and covered everything. And then with that said, I can see why they lingered on certain things because I know where this is going and some of the stuff from this episode is going to factor heavily in the future.

So ... I'm generally happy with the episode and understand why they did what they did ... but I'm also dissatisfied somehow. I just don't know what to rate it.

[Ingelheim]

8/10. The show is setting up the Dance quite nicely so far. The motivations of all the characters seem to be really well portrayed. The non-book viewer will probably understand the reasons behind the civil war.

That's all I asked for season 1. To set up things as well as they could. 

[Ser Graymax]

4 hours ago, Cashless Society said:

And Rhaenyra's commoner costume took me out of the show. It made me feel as though I was watching a Charles Dickens adaptation rather than medieval-inspired fantasy.

Ha,ha,ha, perfect.  Glad Im not the only one that thought that.

[lakin1013]

11 hours ago, DMC said:

9/10, and this time a hard 9.  They're doing a great job showing how you can understand virtually every main character's motivations and even behavior

Except Daemon's motivation remains cloaked, at least to me.   Are we to consider that he is simply a drunk and a fool who likes sex - but not at the last second?  Was this his plan in that we already know he 'likes' Rh and he wanted to force Viserys to let him marry her, after deflowering her?  Does he lurve her?

The show has made him clear - violent, driven, hedonistic, and smart (iffy on the smart).  So what was in this whole 'let's do the town and then kiss' for him? Other posters have implied that Daemon did have sex with Rh  but we do see Little Miss Princess, revved up, stomp home and do the deed with the first available guy.

What was Daemon's motivation here?

[TormundsWoman]

19 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

This gets her spied upon by what is implied to be Daemon's mistress, Mysaria, who reports it to Otto Hightower.

You know, when you consider that among the first words that come out of Damon’s mouth when confronted by Viserys are: give Rhaenyra to me as a wife, and them you add Mysaria (the White Worm) as the provider of info to Otto… it sounds like he was expecting that throne room scene and also that Daemon could possibly have been in the know about the spy going to Otto. Looking back that kid was just sitting there and then when Daemon decides to just take her hair cover off right outside of the brothel, kid sees the white hair and goes straight to the palace… well, it’s possible that Daemon and Mysaria just had him there to make sure he’s reporting (?) 

I do agree that Daemon stopped because he knew it was wrong and couldn’t follow through with his plan. It’s the fact that he frowns and angrily hits the wall behind Rhaenyra before leaving. I saw posters saying the director said he lost interest once she responded but man… that Daemon reaction is not of a man who loses interest. If that’s what Matt Smith was supposed to convey, he didn’t get the memo… maybe he lost control of the situation, realized he cannot handle the innocent lust he awakened in Rhaenyra and that she’s liable to make him lose control of his own self.  But he definitely didn’t look like he lost interest her or in having sex with her.

[lakin1013]

Initially, I thought this episode was about the human sex drive, or abuse thereof. There was dutiful marital sex, public sex, relative sex, presumed first time sex, a whore who is now an information broker, and finally there was the man who prostituted his own daughter trying to ruin the daughter of another man by claiming she was no longer virginal.  The show seemed like a series of small vignettes designed to show sex in life, in politics, in public, and in private and by gender and public position. The mini bits also drew out a character and their motivations or desires.  And it did so, except for one thing - Daemon.  What was he doing?

Others in this thread have suggested Daemon was impotent, too drunk, too ethical, or actually fond of his niece.  Posters have supported their comments by referring to after the show, the directors, the writers, the actors, or the books.  So what was going on in that one scene and if the directors, actors, writers, and others cannot agree on what was shown, what can we hope for in future episodes? 

I was going with a 9 as I was entertained throughout until I got to the part where it seems nobody knows what was happening.   I will rate it a 6. 

[dbunting]

20 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

CT PHIPPS' REVIEW:

https://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2022/09/house-of-dragon-1x4-king-of-narrow-sea.html

Daemon Targaryen has returned as "King of the Narrow Seas" but turns around the perception he is an upstart by laying his ground before his brother's feet. Unfortunately, whatever good will he gets from that is something that he quickly squanders by taking Rhaenyra on a tour of the city's taverns as well as brothels. A scene that results in her having what may or may not have been consummated sex with Daemon but does lead to actual sex with Criston Cole. This gets her spied upon by what is implied to be Daemon's mistress, Mysaria, who reports it to Otto Hightower. What follows is a show of the double standard between men and women in Westeros regarding consensual sex.

The subtext that Rhaenyra's fear of marriage and intimacy is due to her mother's horrific death is made text and Daemon helps educate her that sex can be pleasurable. However, it is also muddled by the fact that he's planning to ruin her reputation in hopes of being able to marry her. Daemon pulls back (or perhaps "out") at the last second, though, because he realizes it's wrong. This just leaves Rhaenyra horny as all get out and sends her into her favorite Kingsguard's arms. Ser Cole, who is only there by Rhaenyra's patronage, doesn't exactly have the opportunity to say no either.



Solid episode, lots of good character-building and plot advancement.

9/10

It was made clear that they did not have sex. Daemon can't get it up. The likely reason his wife is so inhospitable as he puts it is because he can't do his husbandly deeds. He then makes jokes about her and stays away to hide his issue. He can't do the deed in the brothel, she even comments on it offering to wear a silver wig if it would help. In the after the episode commentary they specifically mention him being impotent. 

[dbunting]

2 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Initially, I thought this episode was about the human sex drive, or abuse thereof. There was dutiful marital sex, public sex, relative sex, presumed first time sex, a whore who is now an information broker, and finally there was the man who prostituted his own daughter trying to ruin the daughter of another man by claiming she was no longer virginal.  The show seemed like a series of small vignettes designed to show sex in life, in politics, in public, and in private and by gender and public position. The mini bits also drew out a character and their motivations or desires.  And it did so, except for one thing - Daemon.  What was he doing?

Others in this thread have suggested Daemon was impotent, too drunk, too ethical, or actually fond of his niece.  Posters have supported their comments by referring to after the show, the directors, the writers, the actors, or the books.  So what was going on in that one scene and if the directors, actors, writers, and others cannot agree on what was shown, what can we hope for in future episodes? 

I was going with a 9 as I was entertained throughout until I got to the part where it seems nobody knows what was happening.   I will rate it a 6. 

So you watched the show and was going to give it a 9, but since people here can't agree on a scene you decide lower your score to a 6?