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[Poll] How would you rate episode 104?


Ran
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[Poll] How would you rate episode 104?   

59 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best?

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So you watched the show and was going to give it a 9, but since people here can't agree on a scene you decide lower your score 

 

 

No, not because people here can't agree, more because the actors, writers, and directors did not seem to have the same understanding of what Daemon was doing.  If they don't know, are we in good hands as viewers?

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There was a lot for me to consider in this episode.  I really enjoyed the debauchery of Rhanerya's education colored and told well within the lines of Mushroom's manic telling.  Well done there.  Watching the bits afterward with the interviews takes a bit of the world building and story telling--that wonderful open-ended could be this could be that Martin is the master of away from the story.   Damon's impotence under extreme pressure was brilliant timing only to find it wasn't nobly er prompted.  Nor was it part of his grand design.  Just biology.   Very disappointing to learn of this version of Daemon.  Still it speaks to this guy's lack of control and that is very much my understanding of the dude.  This is chaos.  We didn't know this before.  Anyone else get Maegor vibes off this small character trait knowing he will have many children?  Are they really going to be his children here?  Shake it off...

Overall I really enjoy this story Ryan Condal is telling.  I enjoy the luxury of the layers of character and dialogue and plot here that we did not have the benefit of previously.  It's very cool.  It is an expensive gift and it feels like it.  Episode 4 earned a solid 8 from my humble home.  I don't have a favorite episode.  Each little story has transported me to a place I am learning again and maybe learning to trust again.  I like each episode for different reasons, but I admit this is not a program I was sure I wanted to pay to see.  Glad the curiosity won here as House of the Dragon has been very exciting and pleasurable for watching and discussing.  

I hate Viserys, but I also feel very sad and sorry for him.  I hate myself for wanting to just give Allicent a hug.  I didn't really buy into the tenderness of Rhaenrya/Criston love scene and tend to think it was more along the lines of love the one you're with than actual love.   Of course, I never saw the crush here in dialogue or eyes, but it isn't like me to notice those things unless they are very obvious.  Though the brothel and bedroom scenes were notably different from so many scenes of that nature they were tasteful while still delivering on the flesh this brand promises to deliver.   So yah, I think Princess had a bad case of blue balls is all, sorry.  Still this is a huge and much discussed mystery that of Kingsguard and Princess fallout and I look forward to this er resolution of the matter and the beginning of well, the dance.  

What problem or complaints I have are outweighed by the fun I have with this story telling and the  heart this show has.  It shines through.  Can't decide if I want to dress as Rhaenys or Corlyss for Halloween.  This is new and they will figure it out.  The bit with all the stupid men has to go, though everyone is pretty stupid in this tale regardless gender.  And we don't know where we are going.  Maybe we will see some swords that haven't been seen since this time in history and see what happened to them.  Maybe we'll see a real Kraken.  Maybe we will have a good time if we want to.

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3 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

So you watched the show and was going to give it a 9, but since people here can't agree on a scene you decide lower your score 

 

 

No, not because people here can't agree, more because the actors, writers, and directors did not seem to have the same understanding of what Daemon was doing.  If they don't know, are we in good hands as viewers?

Why does authorial intent supersede all other aspects of the show?

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20 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

What was Daemon's motivation here?

Well, the brothel scene is certainly open to interpretation - and frankly I liked that aspect of it.  I know it was mentioned in the after-the-show thing that he's impotent, but even so clearly that impotence is psychological, so I don't view that as mutually exclusive to him not wanting to because he knew it was wrong and/or he was surprised Rhaenyra was into it.  

As for his general motivations for taking Rhaenyra out, I think there's a lot of reasons - it generally fits with his general character as "Lord Flea Bottom;" he obviously does have feelings for Rhaenyra and wanted to show her the "real world;" his speech about sex being for pleasure also reflects his elitist attitude as a Targ which he obviously thinks Rhaenyra is entitled to as well (as he tells Viserys); and, yes, he still harbors resentment towards Viserys and wanted to get back at him. 

Are at least some of those motivations conflicting?  Of course, but that goes to my original point and Daemon especially almost always has conflicting motivations.  I don't view that nor the "confusion" among the actors, writers, etc. about their interpretation of the brothel scene is necessary bad things at all.

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9 hours ago, Cashless Society said:

Why does authorial intent supersede all other aspects of the show?

Why did you select only authors?  If the writer says one thing, the director of the scene says another, and the actor has their own interpretation - then I have to wonder where the story is going

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2 hours ago, DMC said:

Are at least some of those motivations conflicting?  Of course, but that goes to my original point and Daemon especially almost always has conflicting motivations.  I don't view that nor the "confusion" among the actors, writers, etc. about their interpretation of the brothel scene is necessary bad things at all.

I have to disagree, not vehemently, but as a viewer.  I do expect that somebody with something to do with this series has some idea about what is true, what idea the director, for example, wants the viewer to come away with.  The first time I watched the scene I understood that Daemon was trying to ruin Rh, publicly,  in order to marry her and improve his position. He likes her well enough, we can see that. Rh is no shrinking violet.  At the very last minute, he stops.  Why?  I have thoughts. Now, that was my interpretation so naturally I come here to see what others think.  I fully expect to find other thoughts, some certainly more learned than mine.  BUT if I read 5 or 6 competing explanations (I never considered impotence!) then my confidence begins to waver about the story. And while I understand competing motivations, I do think the director, the words, and the actors should move to make a point.  Otherwise, read a 'choose your own adventure'

It has to be said that I have not read the book/s other than GOT series (GRRM and I had a falling out :-). I have assumed that Daemon and Rh are main characters.  So this moment between them has meaning.  The meanings offered by others make up a strange stew. That annoys me.  

.

 

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8 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

I do expect that somebody with something to do with this series has some idea about what is true, what idea the director, for example, wants the viewer to come away with.

Writers/directors intentionally leaving something ambiguous is hardly a new thing, and this is decidedly character-centered instead of plot-driven.  It's not some Abrams-esque "mystery box" (The Mystery of Daemon's Vanishing Libido) that promises to be paid off eventually and then never is.  Hell, if you asked Rhaenyra and Daemon themselves to each give an honest account of the brothel scene, their interpretations would almost certainly be markedly different.

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Writers/directors intentionally leaving something ambiguous is hardly a new thing, and this is decidedly character-centered instead of plot-driven.  It's not some Abrams-esque "mystery box" (The Mystery of Daemon's Vanishing Libido) that promises to be paid off eventually and then never is.  Hell, if you asked Rhaenyra and Daemon themselves to each give an honest account of the brothel scene, their interpretations would almost certainly be markedly different.

But the show runners and the director have different accounts on that scene.

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1 minute ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But the show runners and the director have different accounts on that scene.

Yeah, they have different interpretations.  That's pretty much my point.  I also don't put too much stock in those after-the-show things where everyone is clearly just riffing.

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20 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But the show runners and the director have different accounts on that scene.

funny how in most reviews I saw , the reviewers thought the same thing as what Miguel said ... I mean what the director said was pure bullshit! which is odd considering she has actually directed it perfectly well to show anything BUT what she says! not to mention what she takes from what she thinks has happened (girls like sex too) is not the main take away from that line of thinking at all ! clearly Daemon has been established to have problem in sex when he has things on his mind , like most people . and he never had been shown to have problem with not being in control , whether in everyday life or in sex . 

so , yeah , it's a bit unprofessional to see director and showrunner are not on the same page about what they've created! it's just clumsy !

Edited by EggBlue
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2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Writers/directors intentionally leaving something ambiguous is hardly a new thing, and this is decidedly character-centered instead of plot-driven. 

Not to drive this into the ground, (except clearly I am going to  :-)  but these are two major characters. We already know things about them, we can make solid guesses about behavior and feelings. If you go through the posts in the threads for this episode, this whole Daemon/Rh thing has gotten quite a bit of guessing and attention.  I actually think we are kicking around a major difference in storytelling.  Before I invest my time by paying attention, I want to feel secure in the direction of the story, in the same way Martin asked the hbo dudes the trick questions, ie who was Jon's mother. Either you can tolerate much more ambiguity than I can, or I demand more of a story being told than you do.

 

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15 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

Why did you select only authors?  If the writer says one thing, the director of the scene says another, and the actor has their own interpretation - then I have to wonder where the story is going

I'm using the term loosely to include creators of a work, in this case, showrunners, director, actor etc. Ambiguous stories will always be open for interpretation, even to the creators involved.

Ridley Scott and Harrison Ford have differing opinions on the character of Deckard, that didn't stop Blade Runner from being a great film.

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Hmmm… 

What an interesting idea to commit an entire episode to this one theme only. And still end up lacking depth. I’m being unfair, the episode did have more layers than I would have expected, and the thought and care that went into it really showed. But the complexity still didn’t take my breath away.

On the one hand it was refreshing to take a break from contrived affairs that resolve themselves in 10 minutes of screen time/off screen. On the other hand the gratuitous fillers fragmented what could have been a beautiful slow burn of a deep topic. (Which also wasn’t as deep or beautiful as it could have been)

The plot advancement happened the episode served happened abruptly and without a gradual or substantial buildup. Some filler scenes made so little sense you ended up blinking yourself out of the experience. The acting is all right with Viserys and Rhaenyra standing out as particularly strong. I’m still not a huge fan of the female costumes but the male costumes are beautiful and rich, as are the sets. The cinematography was absolutely beautiful especially in vulnerable scenes. (And no, cinematography doesn’t require large scale battles or computer generated acrobatics and beasts to be beautiful) 

I gave it a 6, which feels unfair now. It was a B… -. Let’s translate that to a 7. 

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44 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

I gave it a 6, which feels unfair now. It was a B… -. Let’s translate that to a 7. 

As an instructor that's had to inflate grades for countless undergrads that don't meet expectations, a "B" is clearly an 8.  A 7 is a C.  Lowered expectations  :P

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The fatal Blackwood–Bracken confrontation in Storm’s End adds another helping of idiocy to a misunderstood depiction of martial aristocracy that has zero verisimilitude. I find this grotesque and intellectually insulting. Moreover: it’s a missed chance of building a believable world that I can imagine actual humans living in. It’s _cheaper_ to show us a believable world. Why do this?

The Rhaeny in King’s Landing scene started nice enough; actually an example of show-don’t-tell.

(I’d have expected the inept writers of this show to instead have written a scene where character X tells Rhaeny that “the smallfolk would never accept a woman on the Iron Throne”, preferably in hushed tones and gloomy lighting. But no: here we actually get something fine-grained, with colour and drive and even a bit of fun. Well done!)

There’s even some scheming etc. I was quite excited about how this was handled. Dialogue remains uninspired and flat (I think _I_ could write a more exciting medieval play in a few hours) the direction remains pompous. Still… not bad.

And then it comes crashing down in a softcore porn scene that has vibes of an artsy theatre play in London in the 60s. It’s ridiculous. No brothel on Earth has ever looked like that, and no orgy ever. Again, I have no idea which species is shown here. These are not humans, much less ordinary humans. My understanding (I haven’t watched the GoT show) is that his is just part of the “genre that is GRRM-inspired tv”. If so, it’s an embarrassment to us all.)

No inept battle penned by children this time. (In fact, I assume that children today have a firmer grasp of battle tactics thanks to video games.) For that at least I’m grateful. 

Some of the character interaction scenes made sense. I remain _very_ disappointed by the incredibly boring dialogue. Nothing is clever.

2/10. Barely watchable.

Edited by Happy Ent
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13 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

@Happy Ent Wow. That was... not an endorsement. :laugh:

I guess I just don’t watch much TV, so my expectations (or: baseline level of expected writing with regards to plot, characterisation, and dialogue, and baseline level of expected consistency and verisimilitude in world-building) may be way off. If so, then my reviews here are just the ramblings of an incompetent consumer and should be treated as such.

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On 9/12/2022 at 12:53 PM, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:


High Lords killing each other like it's nothing, means nothing, no consequence. This show wants to portrait all men to be idiots who kill each other without thought, that's the only way the Laidies can seem reasonable in comparison for the writers.

You're right. The show needs more quality writing like the quoted text above.

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