spoilers [Spoilers] Rings of Power: Adar, can you hear me?

[RhaenysBee]

Do elf hairstyles follow any pattern or reason? Are they differentiated by region? By class? By faction? 

If orcs capture elves, why isn’t it them who cut the elves’ hair? They could cut the hair of every captive to blend them together into one standard group of slaves. The elves who were proud of being elves and expressed it by the distinct elven appearance are now stripped of that chosen uniformity for a new and coerced one. How do they feel about this? How do captured humans feel about the high and might elves they dislike suddenly looking like common humans? Does this uniformity help them to find common ground for a joint effort for survival, like retrieving food from the orcs or organizing a riot to free themselves? I’m just brainstorming. But you know… we can have another cgi fight scene against another cgi monster and mourn another couple extras.

Do we remember when Frodo and Sam started a fake fight to make a scene and distract the orcs while they slip away and hide while the troop marched farther off? How they had to use their knowledge of the enmity and infighting of orc factions and capitalize on their sizes and the terrain to come up with the idea for escape? Instead of just severing the artery of a random orc with a stick and running for it? 

Yeah… well. 

anyway RoP and HoTD are eerily similar and therefore perfectly comparable. Both are cash cow projects, both are prequels(sort of) to the main event. The difference is that HoTD feels like the corporate project that had a senior supervisor running it whose questions were sometimes listened to on an operational level, while RoP was made by isolated teams of juniors with no overseer who asked no questions and said only yes to board directions so they would get the promotion they were promised. 

[Zorral]

Fear of a Black Hobbit
The demand to keep politics out of art is too often a demand for art to conform to conservative politics.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/09/lord-of-the-rings-rings-of-power-fantasy-sci-fi-racist-criticism/671421/

Quote

.... The interesting thing about this particular sort of backlash is that someone is willing to express such sentiments so explicitly. Backlashes against Black actors being cast in prominent genre roles are almost reflexive at this point, but the critics usually avoid stating outright that the integrity of the work requires an all-white cast. Most of the time, they stick to the argument that inserting politics into art diminishes the quality of the acting or storytelling, even if the shows merely acknowledge the existence of people who are not white or straight or men. The benefit of Morse’s candor is his clarity that his demand to keep politics out of art is itself a demand for art to conform to conservative politics. ....

" a demand for art to conform to conservative politics." to which I respond the author is being circumlocutious -- it is not 'conservative politics',  it is overtly pushing racism and misogyny and bigotry of every kind. 

Quote

.... Yet the fact that the actors themselves are often targeted by prejudiced harassment campaigns is an obvious tell that such campaigns are not about the integrity of the art, but about who gets to see themselves in it. And there is no performance strong enough to overcome a demand that actors who are not white simply not be cast. ....

It has been more than distressing, shall we say, that two participants in the Hugos this year were targeted with death threats, and one of them was from Nigeria.  It's at the point, or even participate.

 

[Heartofice]

21 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

Do elf hairstyles follow any pattern or reason? Are they differentiated by region? By class? By faction? 

I wondered if Elf haircuts are designed for the sole reason of making it abundantly clear to stupid audience members that THESE ARE ELVES!! THEY HAVE FUNNY EARS OK!!

Because otherwise we might miss it. 

[Cas Stark]

Another sort of quibble, is why doesn't anyone, especially the elves, use magic?  I mean, they're elves.  The show is specifically about the lead up to magic rings of power.  Seems odd.  The Queen in Numemor would also have access to magic and to the palantir(s), though maybe one or more of those will show up later.

[fionwe1987]

5 hours ago, Myrddin said:

Morgoth's less successful younger brother. He doth not appear in the histories due to a clerical error.

Younger than Morgoth’s super successfully younger brother, Manwe Sulimo, High King? Or is he the middle child?

58 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Another sort of quibble, is why doesn't anyone, especially the elves, use magic?  I mean, they're elves.  The show is specifically about the lead up to magic rings of power.  Seems odd.  The Queen in Numemor would also have access to magic and to the palantir(s), though maybe one or more of those will show up later.

This is true to Tolkien, though. The Elves aren’t the “fling out fireballs” kind of magicians. It is typically much more vague and subtle. In that sense, young Galadriel making a paper boat really fit how I’d envision Elvish Magic.

Numenoreans don’t have magic. They did get some Elven technology, but Elf stuff is looked down on now, so I wouldn’t be surprised she couldn’t openly use anything that would look like Elven magic.

[Veltigar]

9 hours ago, DMC said:

Copycat!  

I'd prefer Fanboy like the Top Gun  2 call sign 

8 hours ago, 3CityApache said:

Same here. I managed to watch the first two episodes so far, but I liked them both and I am pretty hopeful for the rest.

In contrast, I didn't even start HotD yet, and I'm not in a hurry to do so, as the book bored me to death.

Also, in my case it's decades since Silmarillion, and I didn't particularly like it back then either.

I was replying to @Heartofice in the Watched thread that RoP to me feels very much like one of those Sunday night BBC shows (though with a much higher budget). If it keeps going like that, I'll be pretty happy, although I probably will never really rewatch it.

You are missing out in regards of HotD. The source material isn't great, but I find the show's take on it quite interesting. Definitely more than a few steps above RoP at the moment.

 

[Zorral]

My guess is that most watchers of HotD haven't even heard of, much less read F&B.  The reason for this speculation is that our public library system has a bunch of them and they are "available"; this includes the e-versions too.

There's been pb copy sitting on the shelves of our own library and nobody's taken it out, as it is nearly pristine.  But SOMEBODIES DO read the book, that's certain, the same people who read the GOT books for sure (though not me -- I haven't, and I just can't, anymore than I could read the Silmarillion, because, for me, they're unreadable).  But there's far more discussion on the HotD and ROP threads at least about both B&F than S what we get on the screen -- with the exception of those who are hatin' on one or the other or both of the shows.  

[Myrddin]

1 hour ago, fionwe1987 said:

Younger than Morgoth’s super successfully younger brother, Manwe Sulimo, High King? Or is he the middle child?

Middle children are always forgotten.  

 

ETA: I am a proud middle child. 

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Middle children are always forgotten.  

Hey!  Cheap shot!

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

The Queen in Numemor would also have access to magic and to the palantir(s), though maybe one or more of those will show up later.

A trailer shows Galadriel and Miriel looking into a Palantir.

Speaking of Miriel: With how unfriendly the Numenoreans have become towards Elves and with how she at least publicly does not work against that sentiment, why does she use an Elvish name? It is especially weird since she remarks to Elendil that this is unusual.

The same goes for Pharazôn's (the very much not elf-friend)  son. "Kemen" is not only an incomplete name, but it is also an Elvish.

For all the iambic speeches, they sure do not pay attention to the names. Nerwen herself can attest to that.

[fionwe1987]

I suppose Miriel could claim attachment to the name out of respect for her father?  But yeah, they should clarify that. 

26 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Middle children are always forgotten.  

 

ETA: I am a proud middle child. 

This is true. Poor Mordoth. 

[Werthead]

22 hours ago, slant said:

Looking at the maps carefully, trying to figure the timelines and the path of the comet... The show map is some strange version where Eregion and Rhovanion is much more to the south than they should be, Southlands has a lake where there should be mountains! The maps may be self-contradicting, as in only the ones used in the show. 

The Southlands "lake" is of the Sea of Nurnen in Mordor.

Eregion looks to be in the right place by my reckoning.

Rhovanion (Wilderland) is huge and much larger than I think people realise. It includes all of Mirkwood, the Iron Hills, Dale and Esgaroth, extends north to Gundabad and the Grey Mountains, includes the entire width of the Misty Mountains (Rivendell sits on the edge of Rhovanion) and extends south to the edge of Lorien. The border then shifts to the Great River as far south at least as Nen Hithoel and the Emyn Muil, if not the northern border of Mordor itself, and runs east at least as far as the Sea of Rhun.

9 hours ago, farerb said:

Why not? As far as I know it had a bigger budget than PJ's films.

At least in the same wheelhouse, adjusted for inflation.

However, whilst the money may have been vaguely comparable, the time was not. They certainly had less filming time available than for the three movies (especially once their reshoots and extensive post-production requirements were filtered in), and they certainly didn't have four years of pre-production before filming began.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

Middle children are always forgotten.  

Not if a male child among all sisters.  O no sirreeeeeeebhob    

[Zorral]

24 minutes ago, Werthead said:

they certainly didn't have four years of pre-production before filming began.

Not to mention they did have covid to deal with -- and still do, presumably, for that matter.  Whenever I'm assessing something on screen These Days, I automatically monitor for covid-effect, which sometimes is really obvious in the way scenes are shot and the positions of the actors, particularly in series one knew well prior to covid, and then that first series we saw (often truncated) after covid kicked in.

Other times it shows as in WOT that had begun shooting before covid,  with a missing actor and other elements.

And sometimes just that there have been multiple interruptions in production, which really breaks the rhythm of acting, editing, etc., even actors who really like each other and their parts, relating to each other on screen again, as we saw with the last season of The Last Kingdom.

And now of course, we've got a war in Europe and an inflationary economy, BREXIT effect etc. in the UK.

 

[Raja]

Actually have enjoyed the last couple of episodes of the show, even galadriel has grown on me a little bit. I'm generally not in favour of comparing shows, at least to the extent that has been going on in the last few pages, but ROP is miles ahead of both GoT & HOTD when it comes to convincing me that there's a world out there outside of the current scene I'm watching, with ROP, the world building is just so much better whereas in HOTD, like a lot of GoT, it all feels very 'these are conversations happening in these rooms but nothing much exists outside of it'.

I'm still enjoying both shows though and will keep watching, ROP certainly is gorgeous and I liked the chain bits with the elves. Numenor is gorgeous, but does run the risk of feeling a bit fake-y, but we'll see how next week pans out.

[Maltaran]

3 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Younger than Morgoth’s super successfully younger brother, Manwe Sulimo, High King? Or is he the middle child?

This is true to Tolkien, though. The Elves aren’t the “fling out fireballs” kind of magicians. It is typically much more vague and subtle. In that sense, young Galadriel making a paper boat really fit how I’d envision Elvish Magic.

Numenoreans don’t have magic. They did get some Elven technology, but Elf stuff is looked down on now, so I wouldn’t be surprised she couldn’t openly use anything that would look like Elven magic.

As far as I recall the only real time we see Elven magic in the Silmarillion is Finrod’s duel with Sauron. All the other magic is the work of Ainur and Maiar, such as Melian’s wards around Doriath

[RhaenysBee]

Turns out my dad likes this thing. The game of thrones one is better, but it’s not bad. There’s an elf girl running around and a bearded man falls down from space near the village. Funny little village girls who may be hobbit ancestors find him and fall into the crate. He may be Sauron. There’s also a monster digging tunnels and breaking into people’s homes but a girl and her brother defeat one. I retract everything, this show is gold after all  

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Maltaran said:

As far as I recall the only real time we see Elven magic in the Silmarillion is Finrod’s duel with Sauron. All the other magic is the work of Ainur and Maiar, such as Melian’s wards around Doriath

Well there are the Silmarils.

[Farerb]

1 hour ago, RhaenysBee said:

Turns out my dad likes this thing. The game of thrones one is better, but it’s not bad. There’s an elf girl running around and a bearded man falls down from space near the village. Funny little village girls who may be hobbit ancestors find him and fall into the crate. He may be Sauron. There’s also a monster digging tunnels and breaking into people’s homes but a girl and her brother defeat one. I retract everything, this show is gold after all  

Rings of Power is so amazing, it literally erased the entire GoT franchise from print, TV and the public consciousness! Not even the original film trilogy can compare! and some would even say that Tolkien himself couldn't write something so spectacular!

[Zorral]

The goof balls come out and play at night o my.