Cas Stark Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, IFR said: There were some leaks on reddit that have been verified with each episode. The leaks predict Reveal hidden contents Halbrand is indeed Sauron. I really thought that was all crazy talk, but with the lastest on mithril, I see that I underestimated how bad things could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slant Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 47 minutes ago, IFR said: There were some leaks on reddit that have been verified with each episode. The leaks predict Hide contents Halbrand is indeed Sauron. Darth Vader going Nooooo,gif I mean seriously? No way. Can you please share a link to the leaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 3 hours ago, slant said: Ooof... for some reason I was sure it was a result of the fight against Morgoth itself... I have forgotten half the things, maybe I need to go back and read everything. Anyway, it is very disorienting when they show maps on screen that cannot be compared to any other known maps. The maps seemed pretty straightforward. They show Limlight, the river that flows out of north Fangorn eastwards to the Great River, and you can see Nen Hithoel and the (later dead) Marshes. They then seem to move east through Ithilien into the foothills of the Mountains of Shadow, looking for a pass presumably into the Southlands. So the protagonists are all heading towards meeting up. This wasn't a great episode. In particular, tying mithril to the Silmarils could be a clever idea except that mithril existing during the War of the Jewels, long before the Silmarils were lost. That also feels like an example of the well-known writing axiom of Chekov's Balrog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drewy Posted September 23, 2022 Author Share Posted September 23, 2022 This show honestly does feel like it's really dragging its heels. 5/8 episodes and it feels like things are only just moving. Other thoughts: Spoiler The Stranger looking up at the moon & stars does have strong Tilion vibes. I'm not sure what the timeline is meant to be, or how in connection the other stories are to one another. I guess Southlands/Numenor are happening at the same time? The Mithril having the light of the silmarils and saving the elves from dying stuff is baffling and unironically reads like bad fan-fiction. Why they've gone there - I have no idea. This seems designed to piss people off. Is Durin's Bane gonna be after the silmaril light now? Making some of the Harfoots more sadistic was... a choice. The wolf fight was fine, I guess. I honestly don't care for Numenor. I'm amazed how weak it is - narratively, politically, character-ly - it just feels like a bunch of tropes and storylines I've seen done better elsewhere. Earien is a nothing character. Isildur is.. eh. Elendil is okay, I guess? Galadriel is boring - we get it, she's fierce and does twirly sword stuff, can we get something else now? Halbrand is probably Sauron and I don't know if his story will make much sense. Southlands feels like two episodes worth of story stretched out into five. I guess Adar is finally attacking, at least. I still don't care particularly for Arondir or Brownyn - there's just not that much there and the actors aren't great together either. I liked the music when the Mystics appeared. Not sure what their role will be. They're only taking three ships with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, Werthead said: That also feels like an example of the well-known writing axiom of Chekov's Balrog. I actually didn't mind the bizarre mithril origin story. It's one of the show's ongoing Silmarillion shout-outs (in this case Glorfindel's death). Much worse is the notion that it can be used to treat Sudden Elvish Fading. Sure, it might be an idea of a certain Annatar, but it is very silly - not least because the Phial of Galadriel can hold a reflection of Silmaril light, so the Elves could gather up some of Earendil's light and preserve it if they needed such light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slant Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, Werthead said: The maps seemed pretty straightforward. They show Limlight, the river that flows out of north Fangorn eastwards to the Great River, and you can see Nen Hithoel and the (later dead) Marshes. They then seem to move east through Ithilien into the foothills of the Mountains of Shadow, looking for a pass presumably into the Southlands. So the protagonists are all heading towards meeting up. This wasn't a great episode. In particular, tying mithril to the Silmarils could be a clever idea except that mithril existing during the War of the Jewels, long before the Silmarils were lost. That also feels like an example of the well-known writing axiom of Chekov's Balrog. Wait no... there were a bunch of places that I could not track. Let's just say weedbrook and underclips are to the north of the Grey Marshes or Dead Marshes, then I am totally lost. Where is Trout Bend? Is it into Mordor or to the east? Then Thistledell and the Braids? Then... another difficulty was understanding where exactly the Hobbits migrate between. The Old Forest is probably Mirkwood, then I do not know where Norfield Glen is, or The Grove. That is the range of the Hobbits. They might be headed to the mountains of the east, but the Braids could be the delta south of Rauros, IDK. One thing I liked here is how the show is trying to do what Tolkien did, filling in the blanks of our history or legends, like the Cow who Jumped over the Moon song with Cat and the Fiddle. They did it in this episode with that "Not all those who wonder or wander are lost" and in a previous episode with Disa telling her kids to "knock it off" Okay another thing no one is talking about... who were the people looking for Meteor Man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 I suppose this episode does give a good clue that... sigh... Spoiler Halbrand = Sauron. He seemed aware of how the Orc attack was going, and even mentioned Ostirith, the Elven tower where the refugees fled. For a while, I thought we were dealing with two different timelines and that Halbrand was that younger dude that ends up the sacrificial lamb. The whole Southlands story is a total mess with poor characterization. Another criticism - while I think the soundtrack has been very good, it hasn't been utilized that well. There have been a few scenes now since episode 1 where we get this urgent, powerful theme playing and it's paired with some people walking while the camera pans out or in and rotates a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 25 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said: I actually didn't mind the bizarre mithril origin story. It's one of the show's ongoing Silmarillion shout-outs (in this case Glorfindel's death). Much worse is the notion that it can be used to treat Sudden Elvish Fading. Sure, it might be an idea of a certain Annatar, but it is very silly - not least because the Phial of Galadriel can hold a reflection of Silmaril light, so the Elves could gather up some of Earendil's light and preserve it if they needed such light. And on top of that this is suddenly an urgent thing which at least explains Celebrimbor's timetable. Are they equivalating the light of the Trees with a drug that made the Elves addicted and now they are going through withdrawal and will die? It's been many centuries since the Trees were destroyed and Morgoth had the Simarils for most of the war. Then the Simarils are lost for good and as the show tells us, it's been centuries since the war ended. And now, all of sudden, they'll be dead by spring. WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slant Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: I suppose this episode does give a good clue that... sigh... Hide contents Halbrand = Sauron. He seemed aware of how the Orc attack was going, and even mentioned Ostirith, the Elven tower where the refugees fled. For a while, I thought we were dealing with two different timelines and that Halbrand was that younger dude that ends up the sacrificial lamb. The whole Southlands story is a total mess with poor characterization. Another criticism - while I think the soundtrack has been very good, it hasn't been utilized that well. There have been a few scenes now since episode 1 where we get this urgent, powerful theme playing and it's paired with some people walking while the camera pans out or in and rotates a bit. Yeah even I thought that that was two different timelines, and they showed a flashback about the tower there... it was confusing and clumsily edited. 7 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: And on top of that this is suddenly an urgent thing which at least explains Celebrimbor's timetable. Are they equivalating the light of the Trees with a drug that made the Elves addicted and now they are going through withdrawal and will die? It's been many centuries since the Trees were destroyed and Morgoth had the Simarils for most of the war. Then the Simarils are lost for good and as the show tells us, it's been centuries since the war ended. And now, all of sudden, they'll be dead by spring. WTF At least it explains Celebrimbor's hurry. Also, yeah WTF, why are GG and Celebrimbor suddenly celebrating... Im going to call it "technology" that was half Balrog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Wrt show-Mithril: I guess Bilbo's chainmail was a lot more valuable than everybody thought. Seriously I does not even make sense when going with just the films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Alright I haven't read anything on the fifth episode which I just watched and kept on wondering when the fuck it would end. That was one of the dumbest one-plus hours of television I've ever seen. I..really don't care to go over it, but one example that sticks out is the scene near the end with Arondir and Bronwyn. He, like, revolves around her like it's a fucking high school play. It was so bad in so many ways. I'd say I'm done with this, but I'll probably stick around just for morbid curiosity and the fact it doesn't cost me money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 56 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said: I actually didn't mind the bizarre mithril origin story. It's one of the show's ongoing Silmarillion shout-outs (in this case Glorfindel's death). Much worse is the notion that it can be used to treat Sudden Elvish Fading. Sure, it might be an idea of a certain Annatar, but it is very silly - not least because the Phial of Galadriel can hold a reflection of Silmaril light, so the Elves could gather up some of Earendil's light and preserve it if they needed such light. I dunno that Galadriel, or elves in general, could mass produce stuff like the phial. The phial is a distinct callout to the Silmarils, meant to show us how Galadriel is as capable as Feanor, and he couldn't make more than 3 of them. I doubt Galadriel could produce enough to give every Elf, which this stupid storyline now requires, since if they're all not clad in mithril, they will die. What an utterly dumbass story. 19 minutes ago, slant said: Yeah even I thought that that was two different timelines, and they showed a flashback about the tower there... it was confusing and clumsily edited. I thought this too, and briefly, hope soared, because some of the stupid in this plot could be eased that way. 19 minutes ago, slant said: At least it explains Celebrimbor's hurry. Also, yeah WTF, why are GG and Celebrimbor suddenly celebrating... Im going to call it "technology" that was half Balrog? Yeah it makes no sense at all. And since we know the Balrog is still under Khazad Dum, are we to expect the noble Elf, too? This mithril story is distinctly stupid. It is silvery steel, in the first place. Why would the light of the Silmarils suddenly give up the golden color of Laurelin's light? They do mention it is a myth. I would hope the Elves will turn out to be wrong, but I'm not sure that's a better story than keeping all this to be the actual truth. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 minute ago, DMC said: Alright I haven't read anything on the fifth episode which I just watched and kept on wondering when the fuck it would end. That was one of the dumbest one-plus hours of television I've ever seen. I..really don't care to go over it, but one example that sticks out is the scene near the end with Arondir and Bronwyn. He, like, revolves around her like it's a fucking high school play. It was so bad in so many ways. I'd say I'm done with this, but I'll probably stick around just for morbid curiosity and the fact it doesn't cost me money. I felt that way at ep. 4. It took me several stops and starts to get through it, without much interest or engagement. Same with this one. It's odd that a show full of expensive spectacle feels like it's 3 hours long when it's only an hour. I will keep watching because: Tolkien. I'm not sure I can see myself making it for 5 seasons unless there are a lot of changes in pacing and writing, but I will definitely watch the last 3 eps. I don't expect that on finaly analysis my initial 'better than I expected but not great' take will hold up. Just as bad as I thought it might be seems more on point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 The one thing I really dislike about this show is the elf racism. Elves are arguably the most privileged group in this universe. It’s like when rich white people from Connecticut act like truck drivers from West Virginia are oppressing them. Jesus Christ, have a little awareness. I thought the dialogue for this episode was pretty good, with a lot of funny moments. My favorite subplots are Nori and the Harfoots, and Halbrand’s scenes with Galadriel. I’m glad we finally got a line acknowledging that people aren’t responsible for what their ancestors did centuries ago. Spoiler If the leaks are correct and Halbrand is Sauron, then they’re trying way too hard to make that shocking, to the point where it’s going to look nonsensical when it’s revealed. I hope they have something better planned. My least favorite subplot is Bronwyn and her village. Such a dull and uninspiring character and plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Drewy Posted September 23, 2022 Author Share Posted September 23, 2022 35 minutes ago, DMC said: Alright I haven't read anything on the fifth episode which I just watched and kept on wondering when the fuck it would end. That was one of the dumbest one-plus hours of television I've ever seen. I..really don't care to go over it, but one example that sticks out is the scene near the end with Arondir and Bronwyn. He, like, revolves around her like it's a fucking high school play. It was so bad in so many ways. I'd say I'm done with this, but I'll probably stick around just for morbid curiosity and the fact it doesn't cost me money. Southlands honestly feels like two episodes worth of material stretched out to 5.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slant Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 All of this makes me feel like Elrond is Annatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, slant said: All of this makes me feel like Elrond is Annatar At this point Galadriel = Sauron is just as believable as anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 I thought this episode was a minor improvement over the previous, but the bar is so law this isn't much of an achievement. At least we got a scene or two where Galadriel behaved like an adult. But still a lot of silly moments and the pacing continues to be dreadful. Maybe I missed something because the whole Numenor plot bores me to tears, but why does everyone involved in it behaves like sending a grand total of 5 ships with 500 men on them would be some huge game changer? This is a tiny force. And it was reduced even further when 2 of them blew up. The queen-regent of such supposedly mighty and prosperous realm going on a military expedition abroad with such a small force doesn't make sense. Also, don't the Elves have horses or oxen? Why are they carrying a freaking stone table on foot all the way to Khazad Dum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 hmm... I wonder if the Stranger's you-shall-not-pass magic act which resulted in him injuring his arm is the show's explanation as to why wizards use staffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slant Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: hmm... I wonder if the Stranger's you-shall-not-pass magic act which resulted in him injuring his arm is the show's explanation as to why wizards use staffs. Yeah... thought the same thing. But then the ice pack healing thing was incongruous. Why do they keep showing Meteor Man injuring those around him. Why do they show him as confused and unable to tell if he himself is good or bad. There has to be some deeper explanation here of whatever his true nature is, even if he is Gandalf or Saruman. I hope, this eventual explanation will not be something weak like mithril saving the elves from fading within a season. There is also the albino mosquito man and his companions (I have no clue how else to describe the people who were searching for Meteor Man) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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