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[Spoilers] Rings of Power: Adar, can you hear me?


Ser Drewy
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13 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

So it looks like this season will mostly boil down to a major showdown in the Southlands, between Númenor, the people of the soon to be Mordor region, and the Orcs led by Adar, with a possible appearance from the Stranger and his Harfoot companions. The Orcs will likely be defeated in the field, tactically, but Sauron will be revealed as the real winner.

I think the Harfoots will cross the Misty Mountains and maybe encounter Ice Giants and such by the end of the season. 

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Definitely the best episode so far, I'd say because it's reaching a point where the disparate stories feel like they are all moving in one direction. It was harder to connect the different threads before but now there seems to be some sort of momentum in the plot. It didn't drag like it did previously... as much.

Still, this show is pretty inconsistent in terms of quality. For every fun and enjoyable scene there is another which is dull and poorly done. The scenes with the Orcs and Adar kept my interest, agree that Mawle seems to emit the right level of performance for the role. I also liked some of the Dwarf stuff, even if it seems so comedic at times it's giving me Hobbit flashbacks. I know LotR has a habit of treating Dwarves as light relief but I prefer it when they are a bit more serious. Having Peter Mullan as Durin III is exactly the kind of casting I was hoping for and he really turns it on even in the tiny bits he's in.

But then the Numenor stuff is pretty bland and nondescript, I really just can't feel engaged by any of it. Outside of some majestic CGI throne rooms I'm not sure they really captured Numenor as a concept nor it's people.

One thing that is getting on my tits though is the repetitive slow-mo choral singing death scenes taken straight from the Peter Jackson playbook. Doing that during the Orc chase made no sense, it adds unnecessary drama to a scene that shouldn't need that help. Didn't they do the same thing last week when the elf got shot with arrows.. and again before that. Adding dramatic music when things that I do not care about are happening is almost funny.

 

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2 hours ago, Werthead said:

More lore callbacks, although Adar immediately knowing where in Beleriand whatshisface is from is a bit odd. Beleriand was the size of western Europe and home to many rivers.

 

10 minutes ago, slant said:

Yes, they are expanding some regions, swapping out names of cities with regions, and shrinking some areas as well. Even I was surprised that Adar knew exactly where Arondir was from the instant he said Beleriand. 

The promos that gave us the character backgrounds mentioned that Arondir is a silvan elf. So as a silvan elf who lived in Beleriand, he likely would have been one of the Nandor, thus living in Ossiriand, with ITS MANY RIVERS!!! lol

However, the show has failed to establish Arondir as a silvan elf. Nothing in the dialogue or his mannerism suggest he is different from other Elves, and he serves Gil-Galad. Right now the only thing that differentiates him from other Elven characters is that he is the only one played by a black actor.

Edited by Corvinus85
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3 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

That may have been true for show GoT, especially after season 4 when it waded into the unknown,but as books, this was definitely not true of WoT. And the show just squandered that potential by deciding that the best mystery to focus on was "who's the Dragon Reborn".

Did you mean definitely was true? The theorcrafting and speculation over what would happen next was a major, major part of WoT fandom before it was finished, and between the books finish and the show starting the fandom died down hugely without that constant speculation.

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38 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Did you mean definitely was true? The theorcrafting and speculation over what would happen next was a major, major part of WoT fandom before it was finished, and between the books finish and the show starting the fandom died down hugely without that constant speculation.

Oh yes, sorry, that came out wrong. I meant the books provided immense theory crafting potential, and the show squandered the chance to actually revive that. 

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

What magic tools do the elves have to create such an awesome fade. They truly are advanced 

The Elves can fade their entire bodies, when their fëar consumes their body. Any Elf can do that to a few strands of hair, however. It's an in built feature!

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So I finally have time to suffer through this mess

Numenor

Spoiler

- Well we start with a prophetic dream. It is bit too normal at first, but I can accept Miriel having premonitions. Let's see how this effects her actions.

- "Elf workers taking your trades". Ok this is just a blatant stab at anti-immigrant sentiments. Regardless of your views on matters of immigration, you have to acknowledge that this does not work here. The Numenorean sentiment is not based on the fear of losing your station but jealously for people who are perceived to have it better. This is the problem with having time compression and spending time with other shit: The themes suffer.

- "Armenelos". Since that word does not appear in Lotr (feel free to correct me), the rights question again looms. If they could get that, they could accurately portrayed Numenor's geography.

- On a positive note: Pharazon handled the situation extremly well. His anti-Elf sentiment is well on display. Let's hope that the Elendili do not just have plattitudes in response.

- Galadriel is here. On a positive note, she has not managed to insult anyone so far, but her suggestion that Halbrand could be installed as King of the Southlands and that Numenor should fight the theoretcal threat there are still unreasonable. Miriel understandably declines and Galadriel looks like she is going to stab someone.

- Well she does not go for the stabbing, yet, but seriously insulting the queen regent and demanding to speak to the manager does not help impress me, especially considering that Tar-Palantir has been deposed and holds no actual authority. She should know that, right?

- "There is a tempest in me, it swept me to this island for a reason". Well the awful elf-lines returned with a vengeance. I hoped that I would be spared this week, but alas.

- Hahahaha. Galadriel lands in prison. Hopefully she stays there for the rest of the show.

- The Isildur scene is awful with the slow-motion and the whispering. Isildur deliberately putting his shipmates in danger is even worse. That does not endear him to me. I am however willing to let his character develop over the show. This is going to be the only time I am going to give the show the benefit of the doubt though

- I could not give less fucks about the teenage love drama between Kemen and Earien. Still better than Galadriel

- And speaking of Galadriel: The assassination of her character continues as she is taught diplomacy by a random guy she met a week ago.

- And now she assaults the guards, lovely. And breaks into the secret tower. Fuck this shit. They do not even show it and the fight scene with the guards was pathetically short. The showrunners/writers/director(s) can not even rise to the level of mindless actions scenes.

- No Galadriel, your weak ass apology does make up for your stupidity

- So Miriel was putting on an act. That is fine. Now if she is supposed to be smart, she needs to approach Galadriel's request carefully and spin it in such a way that the Numenoreans are not going to rebel against her.

- Ok needless mangling of the Palantir lore, now with them giving visions of the future. Blergh.

- So Miriel appeals to the Valar. By all accounts that should bite in the ass later on and she should know that. If they actually established that there was a strong colonial sentiment in Numenor, she might have spun it as a mission to gather wealth and power, but alas.

- Also Halbrand has been released for no reason.

Numenor suffers from two things here: Galadriel who remains as awful as ever and even ascends to new heights this episode and the lack of any exploration of the Numenorean animosity towards elves. It is all "foreigners bad", nothing else. Nothing about the fear of death and the resent towards the deathless. Blergh

The teenage drama with Earien, Elrond and Kemen is there also. Normally I would resent it for taking up screen time, but as the other parts are so awful, I just do not care. Good job show.

Eregion/Moria

Spoiler

- So they already started wíth the constructing of the superforge. That was quick. I do not recall Durin senior agreeing to the proposal and it only could have been a few days. Seriosuly if the show cannot stick to Tolkien's timeline, they should at least try to keep things internally consistent.

- Nice bit here with Celebrimbor and Elrond.

- The timeline continues to be fucked as Elrond spontaneously teleports back into Moria.

- Disa is lovely, yet I wish that they would turn down the accents. It really spoils the whole thing.

- I really hope that the Elf/Darf conflict is not going to be entirely artificial and contrived

- Doing a closeup shot of Elrond's mouth was definitely a choice.

- So the whole thing is about Mithril as if that had not been clear. Questionably fidelity to Tolkien aside. What exactly is the dwarves problem here? It is not like the elves are going to take your mining operation and your city is obviously not dependent on imports, so why the fear?

- Ok Durin answers that, but not really. I am pretty sure that the Elves being immortal would not mind to wait for Mithril to be mined. Are they going to demand mining quotas from the Dwarves?

- It appears no dwarven woman gets a beard on this show

- Nice character bits between Elrond and Durin, though I am not a fan of putting down Durin at every opportunity

There are some genuinely nice moments here as there were in episode two. However this is undercut by making Durin the funny scottish dwarves and by the artificialness of the Elf-Dwarf conflict. Celebrimbor remains woefully underused.

Southlands

Spoiler

- Well the introductory scene is good. A suprise, but a welcome one. I am not particulary interested in a detailed explanation of orc funeral rites, but it is nice to see a hint of something there. I also like Adar's reaction to the dying orc, there is some sort of affection there mixed in with the orcish brutality of just stabbing a dying person. Add to that that the actor is able to play just the right amount of cracy and it's a shame that he is likely going to be wasted on a filler villain and red herring.

- "by the mouth of the river" I assume the mean the Sirion? Why not name it if you can get "Armenelos"? This is just irritating

- Ok I am not going to ask who build that watchtower; the show's geography is in shambles anyway. I am going to ask though why Bronwyn is the only person in the entirety of the "Southlands" who is not a dirty unwashed peasant and who wears clothing with actual color.

- You know Waldreg has a point. Nobody voted for Bronwyn. Insert Monty Python reference here

- The horror elements really do not work for me. They come across as rather silly. The orc's sunlight sensivity is still all wrong.

- Sure convenient that Arondir shows up just in the nick of time. Sure convenient that Bronwyn finds them. Convenient that the sun rises at just the right time. Convenient that the orcs do not use their anti-sun cloaks and charge them or use arrows.

- The slowmo fight scene is awful. Was the director not competent enough?

- I have no idea how the places relate to eachother in this show.

Adar is definitely the highlight of this episode which makes it all the sadder that the actor is wasted on this filler villain. He is also the only character I care about here.

One thing that struck me in this episode is that I have no idea of how these places relate to eachother with regards to distances and time. Maybe the War of Wrath permantly warped-space time in Middle-earth. That would explain the time compression.

Overall this is the best episode so far by virtue of having actual plot and Adar. Still not good.

Edited by ASOIAFrelatedusername
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I didn't really see any improvement, but I may be biased.  Possibly the pacing was a little better.  The story is still dumb.  Elves will take your jobs!!!  I mean, really?  Galadriel as a violent unhinged Karen. Why? Why? Why?  A lot of characters I do not care about--Theo, Ilsidur [yeah yeah I know] and others whose names I don't even care about.  The Elrond actor I still hate this casting.  Numenor still looks great.  ROP is still completely mediocre, on occasion veering into bad territory.

Edited by Cas Stark
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Not wanting to talk much about this thing ... but why the hell is Miriel the Queen Regent?

She certainly is a regent since she rules in her father's name and stead ... but she would only be a Queen Regent if she were a queen. But a queen she would only be as queen consort or as queen regnant ruling in her own right. As her father's daughter she would be the Princess Regent at this point. Why can't they get such basic things right? Did they just think the title 'Queen Regent' sounded cooler?

Also - the little Sauron boy is named Theo? Seriously? What comes next, an Elf named Ashley? An Orc named Thomas?

Oh, and yes, Galadriel being a millennia-old moron needing to get schooled in politics and diplomacy by a cowardly (in the sense that he runs away from his legacy) movie Aragorn-lookalike is really painful to watch. Why on earth would anyone ever want to create such a version of Galadriel? If they needed such a female Elf character why not go with Celebrían? We know nothing about her character and she could have been pretty young at that point in the show.

Edited by Lord Varys
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That bizarre job/immigration thing was even more anachronistic as Ranger Elf's flawless fade. Genuine WTF moment there. Very baffling to decry anti-immigration for a minute, framing the Numenorean blue collar folk as in the wrong, only to have them resoundingly go back to hero mode in the last scene. Felt like a Sesame Street Today's Moral kind of moment, right?

I'm not in any way knowledgeable on the Silmarillion other than a basic memory of the major plots. I agree with those of you with a firmer understanding in that making Galadriel an angsty, naive teenager is a bizarre choice - especially when no other elves have been depicted as nearly so brash or pugnacious. The actor is nailing it, I just think she's portraying a very wrong version of her character.

I agree that most of the plot threads they're developing are veering into stupidity. I'm disappointed, to be sure, but the show is still gorgeous and the score has tricked me into enjoying some otherwise regrettable scenes. They certainly have a lot to go for the remainder of this season. I'm just loving the splendor and landscape, but this certainly doesn't seem like enough to ever want to re-watch it, the way I have such fond memories for the original movie trilogy.

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I actually liked that scene with Galadriel & the halbrand dude, I felt like it actually made her feel more like an actual character with flaws as opposed to the fairly wooden characterization of her in the first couple of episodes.

Still going to stick with this as there is plenty I like and I'm interested in - I think the dwarves stuff is good. I think there are some emotional beats that work and make me want to keep watching - these include Elrond & Durin & Isil's family, Halbrand ( he might be an aragorn look alike, but his character is not that at all and I think reducing him to 'aragorn lookalike' is a bit of lazy criticism) - these are characters I actually care about so I'm invested.

Is there any interest in a non spoiler thread? I feel like it's hard to even talk about this show in these threads.

Edited by Raja
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2 minutes ago, Raja said:

I have no issues with characters that are 'too flawed'

She's supposed to be the hero.  When Im happy to see the Queen of Numenor slap her down, something has gone wrong with the characterization.  Galadriel is not supposed to be Tony Soprano.  I'm sure this is supposed to be her learning her way to the wisdom of LOTR, but I mostly feel like she needs to be sent to her room without supper until she can learn some manner.s

Edited by Cas Stark
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3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

She's supposed to be the hero.

Like I said, it's not an issue for me, she can be a flawed hero, I don't really care. Totally get if other people aren't fond of it but after being not into her character at all the first couple of episodes, I've come around a little bit. My issues aren't related to her flaws, in fact I'd be *more* open to seeing them as that way she might be someone I care about.

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