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[Spoilers] Rings of Power: Adar, can you hear me?


Ser Drewy
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I'm actually rather more positive than most of you. Perhaps it helps that it has been years since I last read the Silmarilion, but despite the stupidity I think it still engages me. Also rather optimistic about the actor portraying Elendil. He seems to have the right gravitas.

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I thought Elendil just felt wrong actually. Maybe it was his far too perfect hair, his well groomed beard or just the poor script and direction, but he was very much coming across as a tv actor here. Gravitas is not what I was getting, the performance was very small and a bit weird. Touched on it before but it's hard to separate out an actors performance from everything around it.

Would I think he was better if he didn't look like a hairdresser from Essex? Maybe. Would he have more gravitas if his costume didn't look like it was made by my mum for a school play? Maybe. Would his lines have more power if they didn't feel like they were written by a student for their first student movie? Hard to say. 

Maybe the guy has potential in the character, I know the actor has a good theatre background, but there was so much off in the scenes he was in that I cannot say he was good. 

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34 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I thought Elendil just felt wrong actually. Maybe it was his far too perfect hair, his well groomed beard or just the poor script and direction, but he was very much coming across as a tv actor here. Gravitas is not what I was getting, the performance was very small and a bit weird. Touched on it before but it's hard to separate out an actors performance from everything around it.

Would I think he was better if he didn't look like a hairdresser from Essex? Maybe. Would he have more gravitas if his costume didn't look like it was made by my mum for a school play? Maybe. Would his lines have more power if they didn't feel like they were written by a student for their first student movie? Hard to say. 

Maybe the guy has potential in the character, I know the actor has a good theatre background, but there was so much off in the scenes he was in that I cannot say he was good. 

It's a fucking TV show? Honestly, what is it that you want from this series? Whatever it is, you will clearly never get it (another version of LOTR from Peter Jackson, maybe?).  Your complaints just sound like you are being mean for the sheer enjoyment of doing so. This is ridiculous at this point. Why even watch? Just say you don't like it and go.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Isis said:

It's a fucking TV show? Honestly, what is it that you want from this series? Whatever it is, you will clearly never get it (another version of LOTR from Peter Jackson, maybe?).  Your complaints just sound like you are being mean for the sheer enjoyment of doing so. This is ridiculous at this point. Why even watch? Just say you don't like it and go.

 

It's the most expensive TV show of all time and I don't think it is unfair to compare it to the Jackson movies. If you are going to spend this amount of money making this TV show there is some expectation that it doesn't have the same values as a tv soap or low budget fantasy series like Merlin or Xena.

I am expecting good quality, powerful performances that reflect the style that Tolkien has in his writing, I don't expect performances and writing that I would usually see in a daytime soap. I don't think that is being unfair. 

Sure if you people want to watch it through the lens of it just being some run of the mill fantasy show, with very low expectations then that is fine. I don't think it should be given a free pass on those things when you make an adaptation like this and spend that amount of money on it. It is always going to be compared to what has come before and it is really pretty lacking. 

At the very least this show should be matching something HotD in acting quality and performance, and should look better.. but it so often doesn't. I've only seen a couple of episodes of HotD but already there have been some stand out performances from some truly great actors (Matt Smith and Paddy Considine in particular). That is just a tv show, and that is the minimum level something like RoP should be aiming for. Game of Thrones has shown you can do fantasy at a high quality (at its peak) and take it seriously. I don't think it's too much to expect a Tolkien adaptation that has had money thrown at it to be at that level or be surprising if people are a little disappointed by the result of what has been made. 

Edited by Heartofice
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30 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That’s why there is a “spoiler” warning on the title for the thread.

If you look carefully, Scot, you will notice that Ran quietly changed the title of the thread immediately after my post complaining about all the book spoilers. :D

Edited by SuperHans
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4 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I'm actually rather more positive than most of you. Perhaps it helps that it has been years since I last read the Silmarilion

Same here. I managed to watch the first two episodes so far, but I liked them both and I am pretty hopeful for the rest.

In contrast, I didn't even start HotD yet, and I'm not in a hurry to do so, as the book bored me to death.

Also, in my case it's decades since Silmarillion, and I didn't particularly like it back then either.

Edited by 3CityApache
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47 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

At the very least this show should be matching something HotD in acting quality and performance, and should look better.. but it so often doesn't. I've only seen a couple of episodes of HotD but already there have been some stand out performances from some truly great actors (Matt Smith and Paddy Considine in particular). That is just a tv show, and that is the minimum level something like RoP should be aiming for. Game of Thrones has shown you can do fantasy at a high quality (at its peak) and take it seriously. I don't think it's too much to expect a Tolkien adaptation that has had money thrown at it to be at that level or be surprising if people are a little disappointed by the result of what has been made. 

Writing and plot development?  Yes, HotD clearly is superior to ROP thus far.  But it's very hard to say the acting or production values are much different - other than HotD having more established names.  And I'm not sure what you're getting at where HotD is "just a TV show" while ROP is supposed to be on a higher standard.  I mean, maybe in terms of money, but if you can't compare ROP to HotD what can you compare it to?  Because comparing it to feature films doesn't make any sense either.

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13 minutes ago, DMC said:

Writing and plot development?  Yes, HotD clearly is superior to ROP thus far.  But it's very hard to say the acting or production values are much different - other than HotD having more established names.  And I'm not sure what you're getting at where HotD is "just a TV show" while ROP is supposed to be on a higher standard.  I mean, maybe in terms of money, but if you can't compare ROP to HotD what can you compare it to?  Because comparing it to feature films doesn't make any sense either.

My point was that they should be the same yardstick to compare. They are both 'just tv shows'.. Isis was alluding to the idea that we should all lower our expectations because RoP is 'just a tv show' but I think we are long past the time where that is the case. The line between movie and tv show is very thin, almost non existent

Personally yes I think they have managed to make the whole thing 'look' better in HotD, maybe because its just darker and grimmer you can hide the plasticky edges of modern design. I also think they so far just have better actors in there. Smith, Considine and Ifans are bloody good actors I'd watch in almost anything. In RoP there is maybe Clark who you'd say was exceptional going into the show, everyone else feels a bit jobbing.

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45 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Personally yes I think they have managed to make the whole thing 'look' better in HotD, maybe because its just darker and grimmer you can hide the plasticky edges of modern design. I also think they so far just have better actors in there. Smith, Considine and Ifans are bloody good actors I'd watch in almost anything. In RoP there is maybe Clark who you'd say was exceptional going into the show, everyone else feels a bit jobbing.

Ok, so you agree they are on the same standard, and your argument is ROP looks more "plasticky" on the edges and HotD has three more recognizable/established British actors.  Doesn't seem to be much of a difference to me, but obviously YMMV.

Edited by DMC
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This whole Elendil discussion is pretty indicative of my problem with this series. I, Mr Average Viewer, Mr I’ve read LotR a while ago and saw the movies, have no clue who he his. I happened to have looked it up, OK, he’s very briefly in the movies and immediately dies. Great. But try to put yourself in my shoes for a second; three episodes in to a new series, we get introduced to some guy who appears to function as rescue for Galadriel. OK, he’s sticking around. And now he’s talking with his son … and his daughter has showed up. And she got the apprenticeship! Or something. What? And his son is annoyed. This has nothing to do with the plot, or what little if it we’ve been given. Am I supposed to care? 

It feels so preoccupied with getting the lore right for those that care about it, it’s completely forgotten to be entertaining in its own right for people who just want to see a good show. I haven’t been provided with a reason to care that we’re in Numenor, or that Elendil is here, or that his son got annoyed with him. 

And while I’m enjoying House of the Dragon far more, I guess I can’t put myself on the shoes of someone who doesn’t know the history there as well. If Viserys decides to marry Alicent, eh, so what? At least she’s not 12, seems a good choice. Knowing that a significant step was taken towards the Dance made that scene much more significant to me. But I just don’t feel like doing the necessary homework for Rings of Power, it hasn’t really demonstrated that that would be a worthwhile investment.

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34 minutes ago, DMC said:

Ok, so you agree they are on the same standard, and your argument is ROP looks more "plasticky" on the edges and HotD has three more recognizable/established British actors.  Doesn't seem to be much of a difference to me, but obviously YMMV.

I'm saying they 'should' be the same standard, there isn't some lower bar because they are TV, but that RoP is of a lower quality than it should be. Maybe you don't see much difference but I sure as shit do.

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7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I'm saying they 'should' be the same standard, there isn't some lower bar because they are TV

Ok, seemed to be some misunderstanding there.  I thought initially you were saying ROP shouldn't be on the same standard of HotD which was "just a TV show," and I thought that was kinda silly because they are very natural to compare in terms of super important and expensive TV shows.  And all the other obvious reasons.  That was my confusion though, sorry.

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

but that RoP is of a lower quality than it should be. Maybe you don't see much difference but I sure as shit do.

Again, I do see a significant lower quality from ROP on other aspects, but not when it comes to acting and production value.  I think the former is unfair and the latter is..well, c'mon, ROP is amazing to look at even if I don't really give two shits about production value.

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ROP is kind of inconsistent.  I'll say again I thought Numenor looked fantastic, but some of the stuff does look a little cheesy.  Costumes to me are not that great.  Writing is entirely pedestrian.  I liked the Elendil actor.  It is funny to see the same thing going on with ROP as went on with GOT....viewers reading so much more into the show than is really there, excusing gaffs and plotholes with detailed explanations when there is a 97% chance the truth is...they're doing it for the same reason they did in GOT...they think it's cool and there will not be any backstory or explanation that makes it all make sense, it will not make sense beyond 'look' 'cool' 'crash' 'bang' 'kapow'.

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42 minutes ago, DMC said:

Again, I do see a significant lower quality from ROP on other aspects, but not when it comes to acting and production value.  I think the former is unfair and the latter is..well, c'mon, ROP is amazing to look at even if I don't really give two shits about production value.

It might a bit unfair, I agree, because as i said above it's really hard to separate out whether someone is giving a good performance from all the other contextual stuff going on around them. Is Elendil coming across less well than he could because he's a bad actor (hard to say because he doesn't really have an extensive CV, he really is a 'tv' actor) or is it all the other stuff going into how he comes across, like hair and costume and flat design, that is tainting it. But still I can watch Considine in any scene and tell the difference between him and the actor who plays Elendil. Some actors really do have a sort of magic charisma power where you just know they are great, the ability to communicate so much with just a look. Hard to say anyone outside of Clark in RoP has that so far.
 

32 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

ROP is kind of inconsistent.  I'll say again I thought Numenor looked fantastic, but some of the stuff does look a little cheesy.  Costumes to me are not that great. 

This is also true, its VERY inconsistent. There are several scenes which look amazing, very well done, bits of the prologue for instance. Then the more meat and potatoes scenes are so lazy and workmanlike. Dialogue scenes are shot so flatly and there is little inspiration, thats why it reminds me of a network tv show during those scenes. Its like 'heres two people talking, stick a camera in one place.. shoot it.. done.. what's next'

The costumes are rubbish and cheap looking too.

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Workmanlike is a good description of the whole show. There is no feeling that anyone involved in bringing the show to life is vested in Tolkien, unlike Peter Jackson whose love for the work(s) was evident, to me anway.  Everyone involved is just doing a job, sometimes a good job, sometimes a poor job. "Flat" is also a good descriptor, stuff happens, sometimes it looks fantastic, sometimes not, and then more stuff happens....none of it is very dramatic for the audience.

Edited by Cas Stark
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