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[Spoilers] Rings of Power: Adar, can you hear me?


Ser Drewy
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3 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

The issue with using "TV actor" as code for quality is that this assumes that you can only be stuck doing TV acting if you're bad at acting. The reality is, your connections and luck matter a hell of a lot more when it comes to getting sizeable movie roles and breaking out. For some folks with great acting talent, the break may never come, and they may remain TV actors, but have incredible acting chops nonetheless. 

That’s true to some extent, a lot of it is who you know. But there is also a level of meritocracy about it, because if you aren’t adding anything, if people don’t come specifically to watch you, if you give consistently average or uninteresting performances you will be forgotten. Those actors in the most demand are often those who have achieved something and are recognised to really be good. Studios are always looking for the next big thing or want dependable actors they ca rely on to be good no matter what. 
 

TV actor as a term for less talent is a bit outdated I will admit, but as a way of describing actors who never reach the top and spend their lives doing jobbing roles on network tv I think it fits. 

 

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I don't believe that ROP couldn't have gotten a couple of name actors.  It's LOTR and is the most expensive TV show ever made.  Plenty of A list actors do TV these days.  I for one, don't see any future stars, at least yet, maybe the woman playing Galadriel, don't see any other standouts.  I also so far don't see anyone as bad as Kit Harrington or Emilia on her bad days.

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Meh - I think this “big name” or “established” actor argument is plenty ridiculous.  The time commitment (~5 years, especially for lead roles we know do not die) and material/script (I like RoP but there’s not a lot of depth for an actor to enjoy - it’s not nearly as character-driven as any of the shows mentioned) likely make it a hard project, and I think people have done well with what we have seen so far.  

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8 minutes ago, VigoTheCarpathian said:

(I like RoP but there’s not a lot of depth for an actor to enjoy - it’s not nearly as character-driven as any of the shows mentioned)

I'd question why this is the case though, why shouldn't this show be character driven? Is Game of Thrones character driven? 

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Ok I think your picking nits now, you stated that RoP couldn’t get established actors to be in their show. Clearly not true, I gave you plenty of examples where it’s already happened and I could easily have reeled off a load more. 

I said they couldn't get truly great actors, then that conversation devolved into more than "one or two" great actors - admittedly due to me trying to make a point and not realizing what I was getting myself into - and then you tried to pedantically refute that point and failed.  That's not me picking nits.  That's you endlessly picking nits and me trying to accommodate you for as long as I could.

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

I'd question why this is the case though, why shouldn't this show be character driven? Is Game of Thrones character driven? 

If not 'character driven'  it should at the very least have better characterization.  The poor characterization is the main reason why the show feels flat and by the numbers.  X happens, and now K happens, and now something else happens, with not much emotional resonance to any of it. Good characterization is even more important for a show where a lot of the outcomes are predetermined.  We know many of these characters won't die, so they need to be very well drawn to maintain interest and 'drama'.

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11 minutes ago, DMC said:

I said they couldn't get truly great actors, then that conversation devolved into more than "one or two" great actors - admittedly due to me trying to make a point and not realizing what I was getting myself into - and then you tried to pedantically refute that point and failed.  That's not me picking nits.  That's you endlessly picking nits and me trying to accommodate you for as long as I could.

Ugh, I've written far too much on this topic by now for you to have literally ignored ever word so I'll just leave you alone for a bit to continue replying to what you imagine I'm saying. 
 

10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

If not 'character driven'  it should at the very least have better characterization.  The poor characterization is the main reason why the show feels flat and by the numbers.  X happens, and now K happens, and now something else happens, with not much emotional resonance to any of it. Good characterization is even more important for a show where a lot of the outcomes are predetermined.  We know many of these characters won't die, so they need to be very well drawn to maintain interest and 'drama'.

Agree. The show is very much plot heavy so far (yet very little actual plot to get your teeth into ironically) with very little to establish any real character depth. I hate having to keep comparing it to HotD or GoT constantly, but they manage to be fantasy shows that established characters with depth, motivations, different aspects to their personalities in very short amounts of time. 3 episodes in an I can barely tell anyone apart, they are just identikit elves.

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

but his character is still flat.

Not even sure what that means. We're literally at the beginning of his journey.

We're only three episodes into a five season run. Should we now expect every single actor to be 100% comfortable in the skin of their characters at this stage of things? As has been vigorously noted upthread, many of these performers are green as grass.

I would suggest patience. Whether it's the writing, acting, or something else, I can think of plenty of great shows that took a little while to find their feet.

Anyone remember season one of Spartacus?

*inserts rotten egg emoji.*

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22 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

3 episodes in an I can barely tell anyone apart, they are just identikit elves.

Hang on, hang on. What is this, some kind of 'well, with those pointy ears they all look the same to me' nonsense?

You can't tell the difference between Elrond and Galadriel, or Arondir and Celebrimbor?

Identikit elves. Really?

ETA: Okay, okay, I'll admit that the stylist doing Elrond and Celebrimbor's hair appears to be a fan of Steve from Stranger things. Other than that, I really can't see what you mean. The four characters I mentioned are completely different from each other.

Edited by SuperHans
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25 minutes ago, SuperHans said:

Not even sure what that means. We're literally at the beginning of his journey.

We're only three episodes into a five season run. Should we now expect every single actor to be 100% comfortable in the skin of their characters at this stage of things? As has been vigorously noted upthread, many of these performers are green as grass.

I would suggest patience. Whether it's the writing, acting, or something else, I can think of plenty of great shows that took a little while to find their feet.

Anyone remember season one of Spartacus?

*inserts rotten egg emoji.*

Go back and watch GOT ep. 1, season 1.  You will see that you understood Sean Bean's character from his first scene.  And Tyrion.  And Cersei.  And Robert.  Or watch the introduction of the Red Viper.  Or, pick another show, and watch Better Call Saul introducing Lalo Salamanca.

Three episodes in, tens of millions spent, and every character is dull as dirt.  

Edited by Cas Stark
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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Go back and watch GOT ep. 1, season 1.  You will see that you understood Sean Bean's character from his first scene.  And Tyrion.  And Cersei.  And Robert.  Or watch the introduction of the Red Viper.  Or, pick another show, and watch Better Call Saul introducing Lalo Salamanca.

Three episodes in, tens of millions spent, and every character is dull as dirt.  

Well, all I can say is I'm sorry you're not enjoying it.

Because I am.

And I cannot wait 'til tomorrow. :D

 

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28 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Go back and watch GOT ep. 1, season 1.  You will see that you understood Sean Bean's character from his first scene.  And Tyrion.  And Cersei.  And Robert. 

What about Jamie Lannister? 

By the end of the show, one of the fans' favourite characters.

Did we fully understand him as he shoved a child out of the window because he got caught fucking his sister? 

 

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Just now, SuperHans said:

Jamie Lannister? 

Yeah sure.  Arrogant, cocky, strong bond with his brother and in love with his sister, amoral.  I'd say that first episode characterization held true for several seasons.

The characterizations that do exist in ROP are bland and by the numbers.  I'm glad if people are enjoying it. I find it disappointing, but about what I expected, expensive and lackluster.  

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22 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah sure.  Arrogant, cocky, strong bond with his brother and in love with his sister, amoral.  I'd say that first episode characterization held true for several seasons.

The characterizations that do exist in ROP are bland and by the numbers.  I'm glad if people are enjoying it. I find it disappointing, but about what I expected, expensive and lackluster.  

Alright then.

Arondir:

(As you say) Stoic. Dutiful. Courageous. Total badass. Been stuck out on the edge of the world for 80 years. Desperately in love with someone he knows he can never really be with. Father of the urchin who dug up Sauron's junk.

I mean, three episodes in, I'm not sure what more you want.

Edited by SuperHans
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27 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Go back and watch GOT ep. 1, season 1.  You will see that you understood Sean Bean's character from his first scene.  And Tyrion.  And Cersei.  And Robert.  Or watch the introduction of the Red Viper.  Or, pick another show, and watch Better Call Saul introducing Lalo Salamanca.

 

This is classic overstatement.  Galadriel, Elrond, Durin, Elendil, Arondir, Celebrimbor all get introductory scenes where the viewer is provided clear establishment of their characters.  Just because you don't like that establishment doesn't mean it isn't there.

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33 minutes ago, SuperHans said:

Alright then.

Arondir:

(As you say) Stoic. Dutiful. Courageous. Total badass. Been stuck out on the edge of the world for 80 years. Desperately in love with someone he knows he can never really be with. Father of the urchin who dug up Sauron's junk.

I mean, three episodes in, I'm not sure what more you want.

You could equally use words like wooden, stilted, blank… that would probably be more fitting.

As for characterisation, i think the point is that RoP has done quite a poor job of establishing who these characters are as people in 3 episodes so far. Galadriel is maybe the one they’ve done most to establish, but outside of that you can’t really get a good sense of the ‘character’ of anyone or if you do it’s really not very interesting or complex

Edited by Heartofice
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