Jump to content

Coldhands and Zombie Crows. Why don't more Watch Wights keep their humanity?


Mr_E_Knight
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm only doing my third read through of ASOIAF, and have watched a lot of the YouTube channels (shoutout to LML, History of Westeros, Radio Westeros, Crowfood's Daughter, Alt Shift X, etc. al.) 

In my watching I've seen some interesting theories on Coldhands (that he may have had some warging that helped him evade control of the Others and such), but I feel that there may be a far simpler explanation.  With the introduction of Coldhands, we know that at least one member of the Night's Watch has been zombified but is still in control of his faculties.  What can we safely assume about Coldhands?

  • He is a former member of the Night's Watch
  • He is more than likely (or was) a warg. 
  • Not a huge jump in logic from there to assume that he probably kept the Old Gods. 
  • Assuming he kept the Old Gods, he would have sworn his Oath to the watch before a heart tree.

I theorize that in swearing the Oath of the Night's Watch in front of a Heart Tree, brothers of the Watch were entering into a magical pact with the Weirwood Net, that would protect them from falling under the control of the Other's should they die in battle defending the realms of Men.  This sort of magic would immensely impact the harm that the Others could inflict of the Men of the Watch and could explain a lot about how Men could actually continue fighting the forces of Always Winter for an entire generation.

But "poo poo" you say.  "That doesn't make sense," you go on saying, "many members of the Watch have become wights, 'mindless' ones that attacked their fellow members of the Watch."  True, however, I believe that these men swore their oaths under the Light of the Seven, not before a Heart Tree.  During the Long Night, all members of the Watch would have sworn the oath before a Heart Tree, as the Andals had not yet invaded. One of the reasons why this hasn't occurred with many of the Brothers of the watch is that they are Southerners.  In the prologue to AGOT, Waymar Royce comes back as a wight, but he was from the Vale, and more than likely took his vows in a Sept.  Now, I'm not 100% about Othor, but Jafer Flowers more than likely took his oath in the Sept as well, as he was a bastard from the Reach.

I feel that there are some indications of this magic in the Oath itself.  Let take a critical look at it with this interpretation in mind:

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.  Upon death (night gathering) a member of the watch becomes a Watch Wight, much like Coldhands.  Death could be understood as one's destruction, or loss of control to the Others.

I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory.  Can Crow Zombies have children?  We certainly don't want them as rulers, being all immortal and whatnot.  Undying rulers just reek of tyranny (and they probably can't get south of the Wall to hold decent lands anyway.)  

I shall live and die at my post.. And die, and die, and die...Maybe better stated this could be "I will man my post, living and dying?" This line becomes particularly interesting if you can imagine Crow Zombies that can die over and over again while fighting swarms of Undead.

I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I think I've heard other folks comment before, that this watching line could allude to the Weirwood net.

I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men.  The fire that burns against the cold could imply some sort of magic that is interfering with the cold magic of the Others.  The Fire of one's own spirit, with the aid of the Weirwood Net could keep the Crow's soul free of the control of the Others.

I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. This could be an acknowledgement that your watch could last a very, very long time (just ask Coldhands.) This very magic may even be contributing to the longevity of Bloodraven.  I'm not sure if he swore his Oath before a Heart Tree, but he certainly seems to have a rather deep connection to them.

If this theory could hold water, Jon Snow may not even need the Magic of Melisandre to bring him back to the land of the "living." Or the Cold based magic of the Others may combine with the fire of R'hollor to create some sort of Azor Ahai super zombie of Ice and Fire?  (I realize i'm getting really deep in the weeds here.  I am not expecting an uber-elemental Jon Snowfire zombie.)

Let me know your thoughts.  Please drop some knowledge on me if you have some sources that would disprove this theory (or lend credibility to it even.)

Thank you for your time.

Mr.E_Knight 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello and welcome to the forum @Mr_E_Knight, it's an interesting proposition you make here.  However, we are told that Coldhands died "long ago".  I admit that's a relative term, but it comes from a child of the forest and I am inclined to think long ago means hundreds of years not decades considering the source.   And I could be wrong.  There is no way to really pinpoint how long those Others have been out and about causing their brand of mischief, but not hundreds of years, I'm willing to bet.  Less than decades, I'm willing to bet, which lends a bit of credence to your supposition as there do seem to be more criminals from the south than volunteers from the north in residence at the Wall.  Waymar Royce himself is from a 1st Man family who proudly wear and replicate their 1st Men armor inscribed with 1st Men runes presumably brought over from whence they came.  As a 3rd son, I thought the Royce family gave their 3rd sons over as the northern families will give their 3rd sons over to the Watch.  I presumed this was part of the Pact between the 1st Men and COTF.  I could be wrong.  But if I'm right, wouldn't Waymar have sprouted up something like Coldhands, having taken his vow at a heart tree?  Likewise, we could expect to see Uncle Benjen show up in the same condition as Coldhands down the line if this is indeed the fate that has befallen him.  Oh right, I forgot, he became a bad elf on Prime, silly me.  Sorry, I love this guy.  

Still you could be onto something here along the line of protection from the old gods.  If the COTF are responsible for creating the Others with their own "technology" they would absolutely be able to create hybrids along the same lines.   A Coldhands type wight cannot raise the dead, but remains animated forever type of thing?  Why not?  The human version of this thing was dedicated to them after all.  I like it.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Mr_E_Knight said:

I theorize that in swearing the Oath of the Night's Watch in front of a Heart Tree, brothers of the Watch were entering into a magical pact with the Weirwood Net, that would protect them from falling under the control of the Other's should they die in battle defending the realms of Men.  This sort of magic would immensely impact the harm that the Others could inflict of the Men of the Watch and could explain a lot about how Men could actually continue fighting the forces of Always Winter for an entire generation.

I think you may be on to something. Certainly food for thought. There may indeed be evidence for brothers of the NW entering into a magical pact with the Weirnet - think of the Black Gate, a weirwood door, at the Nightfort which only responds to and opens for a sworn brother uttering the words of the Oath. That's a direct connection between the NW oath itself and the weirwood. Pretty significant. 

It's impossible to lie in front of a heart tree, it is said. No explanation why this is so is given but it probably has to do with truth. Weirwoods record the truth of what they see and these truths can be accessed by the greenseer. When an oath is sworn, the expectation is that the swearer will remain true to that oath - meaning the oath is binding. If a portion of the NW oath (Sam does not recite the entire oath) can open a weirwood portal, then perhaps reciting the entire oath before the tree "binds" the swearer to the tree (especially the last two parts you cite).
Applying this to your theory - the Others appear to bind or enslave the souls of the dead and I think they accomplish this by way of a glamouring-type spell channelled through their eyes (similar to Mel's soul-binding magic she employs in her glamouring of Mance, involving her master ruby which controls the ruby Mance has to wear).  Similarly, the Others bind the dead through the connection between their blue "star-sapphire" eyes and the blue eyes of the wights. So I can imagine being bound to the weirwood by way of the NW oath prevents the soul-binding magic of the Others from taking effect in the event of death. Their cold magic may raise the dead but the binding that turns the dead into mindless wights will not occur, hence a Coldhands type ice-wight. 

Nice, I like it too :thumbsup:

Addition: perhaps this is just circumstancial but wighted Othor and Jafer Flowers are found by Ghost while Sam and Jon are reciting the oath at the weirwood groove beyond the Wall. The direwolf appears with the torn-off hand right after the ceremony. 

Edited by Evolett
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh boy, this is a tough one!  I too, have no idea what long ago means from the perspective of thew COTF and I do think there is some power in The Wall and the Black Gate to bind a Night Watchman.  Sam repeats his oath three times to Jojen (green dreamer), to Bran (apprentice greenseer) and to Coldhands ... a green man?  Afterwards, Sam is unable to say anything about Bran and company.  It's not just the oath he is bound with magic to silence.  Or at least that's my impression.  Repeating the abbreviated oath three times seems almost like an incantation.  It's Mel who says her every word is more powerful at the Wall.

As to Coldhands, he seems bound to the Night Fort and the Black Gate.  I'd go so far as to say that he's the Gatekeeper.  So yes, a man of the Watch - he calls Sam brother. But someone with knowledge that has been lost to the Watch.  There is some speculation that he is one of the Raven's Teeth,  Bloodraven's archers who went with him to the Wall.  But I think he is older.

Bran seems to sense Coldhands approaching in that third eye kind of way:

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

His eyes opened. What was that? He held his breath. Did I dream it? Was I having a stupid nightmare? He didn't want to wake Meera and Jojen for a bad dream, but . . . there . . . a soft scuffling sound, far off . . . Leaves, it's leaves rattling off the walls outside and rustling together . . . or the wind, it could be the wind . . . The sound wasn't coming from outside, though. Bran felt the hairs on his arm start to rise. The sound's inside, it's in here with us, and it's getting louder. He pushed himself up onto an elbow, listening. There was wind, and blowing leaves as well, but this was something else. Footsteps. Someone was coming this way. Something was coming this way.

It wasn't the sentinels, he knew. The sentinels never left the Wall. But there might be other ghosts in the Nightfort, ones even more terrible. He remembered what Old Nan had said of Mad Axe, how he took his boots off and prowled the castle halls barefoot in the dark, with never a sound to tell you where he was except for the drops of blood that fell from his axe and his elbows and the end of his wet red beard. Or maybe it wasn't Mad Axe at all, maybe it was the thing that came in the night. The 'prentice boys all saw it, Old Nan said, but afterward when they told their Lord Commander every description had been different. And three died within the year, and the fourth went mad, and a hundred years later when the thing had come again, the 'prentice boys were seen shambling along behind it, all in chains.

 

The someone is Sam, the something is Coldhands. The thing that comes in the night to collect the 'prentice boys sounds suspiciously like Coldhands and this is a story of the Nightfort.  So I think CH was around before Bloodraven was sent to the Wall.

How long has he been undead?  Hard to say.  He knows a secret language, perhaps the true tongue which he uses in prayer before killing the elk.  He rides an elk.  Bran drops this nugget:

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

"Was he green?" Bran wanted to know. "Did he have antlers?"

The fat man was confused. "The elk?"

"Coldhands," said Bran impatiently. "The green men ride on elks, Old Nan used to say. Sometimes they have antlers too."

 

We don't know anything about the green men, but perhaps they weren't confined to the God's Eye.  Howland Reed goes to meet them and learn their magic.  So perhaps he was raised or protected in some way by green magic.  He is definately a servant of the old gods.

So if they sometimes wear antlers, could he be the Horned Lord?

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Jon X

Jon faced him. "If you've had the Horn of Joramun all along, why haven't you used it? Why bother building turtles and sending Thenns to kill us in our beds? If this horn is all the songs say, why not just sound it and be done?"

It was Dalla who answered him, Dalla great with child, lying on her pile of furs beside the brazier. "We free folk know things you kneelers have forgotten. Sometimes the short road is not the safest, Jon Snow. The Horned Lord once said that sorcery is a sword without a hilt. There is no safe way to grasp it."

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Hello and welcome to the forum @Mr_E_Knight, it's an interesting proposition you make here.  However, we are told that Coldhands died "long ago".  I admit that's a relative term, but it comes from a child of the forest and I am inclined to think long ago means hundreds of years not decades considering the source.   And I could be wrong.  There is no way to really pinpoint how long those Others have been out and about causing their brand of mischief, but not hundreds of years, I'm willing to bet.  Less than decades, I'm willing to bet, which lends a bit of credence to your supposition as there do seem to be more criminals from the south than volunteers from the north in residence at the Wall.  Waymar Royce himself is from a 1st Man family who proudly wear and replicate their 1st Men armor inscribed with 1st Men runes presumably brought over from whence they came.  As a 3rd son, I thought the Royce family gave their 3rd sons over as the northern families will give their 3rd sons over to the Watch.  I presumed this was part of the Pact between the 1st Men and COTF.  I could be wrong.  But if I'm right, wouldn't Waymar have sprouted up something like Coldhands, having taken his vow at a heart tree?  Likewise, we could expect to see Uncle Benjen show up in the same condition as Coldhands down the line if this is indeed the fate that has befallen him.  Oh right, I forgot, he became a bad elf on Prime, silly me.  Sorry, I love this guy.  

Still you could be onto something here along the line of protection from the old gods.  If the COTF are responsible for creating the Others with their own "technology" they would absolutely be able to create hybrids along the same lines.   A Coldhands type wight cannot raise the dead, but remains animated forever type of thing?  Why not?  The human version of this thing was dedicated to them after all.  I like it.  

Thanks for the response!

As to your point about Coldhands dying "long ago," I do agree with you.  I believe that AWOIAF infers that the Children may live centuries, so "long ago" may even be a reference to the Long Night.  Cold Hands may even be one of the original Companions to The Last Hero.  I could imagine him lying dormant until the Others become active again, after all, his watch shall not end until his "death."

While it is stated that the Royce's are a family decendended from 1st men, he is a Ser.  Ned notes in AGOT that those in the North do no take to the custom of knighting, as it has to do with the ritual of being 'anointed with the 7 oils' and such, denoting it to be a ritual (at least primarily) practiced by those who follow the 7.  I believe that he more than likely took his vows in a Sept, as he did when he became Ser Waymar. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Evolett said:

Addition: perhaps this is just circumstancial but wighted Othor and Jafer Flowers are found by Ghost while Sam and Jon are reciting the oath at the weirwood groove beyond the Wall. The direwolf appears with the torn-off hand right after the ceremony. 

I didn't even think of those two lines of 'evidence' lining up in the text, good catch!

Thanks for the props.  I know that the idea of the members of the Watch having a way to subvert the Others ala Coldhands isn't a new idea, but it always irked me that there wasn't a better explanation for where he came from...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Here, an old post of mine in another thread

 

 

A great read!

This is a really fun era in GRRMs legendarium, as there can be so much speculation on who could be who.  I definitely agree that Coldhands may have seen the Battle for the Dawn, whether as a Companion, LH or NK, we may never know. 

I didn't set out so much to discover his identity, but more so to try and flesh out what the process might be behind Coldhands rise after death.  Perhaps this process can be replicated with some of the other members of the Watch?  (Jon Snow of course being of particular interest.)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Still you could be onto something here along the line of protection from the old gods.  If the COTF are responsible for creating the Others with their own "technology" they would absolutely be able to create hybrids along the same lines.   A Coldhands type wight cannot raise the dead, but remains animated forever type of thing?  Why not?  The human version of this thing was dedicated to them after all.  I like it.  

But isn't it like GRRM taking sides, pagans over organized institutionalized religion? We see only the magic of the Old gods and Red Rahloo work, the 7 is just the Christianity equivalent, proselytizing and being an overall dick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coldhands is the prototype for Jon Snow.  He is what Jon will become.  CH had to have been a skinchanger.  His CPU was in another body while his human body died.  If I had to guess, it was probably trapped in a nearby animal that Bran did not see.  A crow.  Something that would not attract attention. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, LynnS said:

How long has he been undead?  Hard to say.  He knows a secret language, perhaps the true tongue which he uses in prayer before killing the elk.  He rides an elk.  Bran drops this nugget:

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

"Was he green?" Bran wanted to know. "Did he have antlers?"

The fat man was confused. "The elk?"

"Coldhands," said Bran impatiently. "The green men ride on elks, Old Nan used to say. Sometimes they have antlers too."

 

We don't know anything about the green men, but perhaps they weren't confined to the God's Eye.  Howland Reed goes to meet them and learn their magic.  So perhaps he was raised or protected in some way by green magic.  He is definately a servant of the old gods.

So if they sometimes wear antlers, could he be the Horned Lord?

Well, perhaps the lyrics of Symon Silver Tongue are a hint: 

Hands of gold are always cold 

Coldhands has cold hands. Garth Greenhand and the green men are horned lord figures and Garth the classic promoter of the fertility of the land. When the horned lord dies / or the green hand dies, winter and the cold set in - the green hand becomes the cold hand / gold hand. Robert who also has strong horned lord imagery reigned as a summer king for 10 years, finally choosing Eddard as his hand. Symbolically, Ned was a "cold Hand" from the North and his becoming Hand of the King coincides with the end of summer. Jamie pushes Bran (associated with Summer through his direwolf's name) from a tower, almost killing him. He will later have a cold gold hand. Cersei wanted Jamie to become Hand. Interesting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Mr_E_Knight said:

A great read!

This is a really fun era in GRRMs legendarium, as there can be so much speculation on who could be who.  I definitely agree that Coldhands may have seen the Battle for the Dawn, whether as a Companion, LH or NK, we may never know. 

I didn't set out so much to discover his identity, but more so to try and flesh out what the process might be behind Coldhands rise after death.  Perhaps this process can be replicated with some of the other members of the Watch?  (Jon Snow of course being of particular interest.)

 

If Val has been wightified as people suggested years ago due to her apparent change of eye color and clothing upon her return to Jon, well... 

Quote

 

He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night's Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. "And that was the fault in him," she would add, "for all men must know fear." A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.

He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Evolett said:

Well, perhaps the lyrics of Symon Silver Tongue are a hint: 

Hands of gold are always cold 

Coldhands has cold hands. Garth Greenhand and the green men are horned lord figures and Garth the classic promoter of the fertility of the land. When the horned lord dies / or the green hand dies, winter and the cold set in - the green hand becomes the cold hand / gold hand. Robert who also has strong horned lord imagery reigned as a summer king for 10 years, finally choosing Eddard as his hand. Symbolically, Ned was a "cold Hand" from the North and his becoming Hand of the King coincides with the end of summer. Jamie pushes Bran (associated with Summer through his direwolf's name) from a tower, almost killing him. He will later have a cold gold hand. Cersei wanted Jamie to become Hand. Interesting. 

That is very interesting!  The place where Jon and Sam takes their vows is old and powerful.  It is treated as a sacred place by the NW.

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Jon VI

Mormont himself confirmed Grenn's doubts. "Castle Black has no need of a godswood. Beyond the Wall long bthe haunted forest stands as it stood in the Dawn Age, long before the Andals brought the Seven across the narrow sea. You will find a grove of weirwoods half a league from this spot, and mayhap your gods as well."

 

There are nine trees/witnesses to the vows.

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Jon VI

The sun was sinking below the trees when they reached their destination, a small clearing in the deep of the wood where nine weirwoods grew in a rough circle. Jon drew in a breath, and he saw Sam Tarly staring. Even in the wolfswood, you never found more than two or three of the white trees growing together; a grove of nine was unheard of. The forest floor was carpeted with fallen leaves, bloodred on top, black rot beneath. The wide smooth trunks were bone pale, and nine faces stared inward. The dried sap that crusted in the eyes was red and hard as ruby. Bowen Marsh commanded them to leave their horses outside the circle. "This is a sacred place, we will not defile it."

 

I'm reminded that when Jaqen swears by all the gods; he places his hand in the mouth of the weirwood:

 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

"Swear it," Arya said. "Swear it by the gods."

"By all the gods of sea and air, and even him of fire, I swear it." He placed a hand in the mouth of the weirwood. "By the seven new gods and the old gods beyond count, I swear it."

 

It seems an odd thing to do.  His hand belongs to the old gods.  It's theirs to command.  Strangely, something similar happens to Jon.  Othor tries to place his hand in Jon's mouth:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Jon VII

Jon's breath went out of him as the fallen table caught him between his shoulder blades. The sword, where was the sword? He'd lost the damned sword! When he opened his mouth to scream, the wight jammed its black corpse fingers into Jon's mouth. Gagging, he tried to shove it off, but the dead man was too heavy. Its hand forced itself farther down his throat, icy cold, choking him. Its face was against his own, filling the world. Frost covered its eyes, sparkling blue. Jon raked cold flesh with his nails and kicked at the thing's legs. He tried to bite, tried to punch, tried to breathe …

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a chance that Barrow Kings had some control over death. Or they could rise and control wights and keep their humanity if someone turned themselves as a wight. So it is possible that Coldhands had inherited that ability.

Actually it is possible that queen of Night's King was a daughter of Barrow King who had seduced commander of NW to gain his and his men support to Barrowtown in their war against Winterfell and CH was their descendant. Or he could have been descendant of daughter of last BK who married a Stark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It doesn't seem that praying to the old gods protects the Free Folk from turning into wights, so I certainly don't think it would protect the Night's Watchmen, either.

I'd prefer that Coldhands was someone that no living character (or reader) ever heard of before.  But if he is a familiar character, I think that Coldhand's identity is most likely the Night's King.  I don't know if the Night's King was good or bad (in between, most likely), but I do know the multi-thousand-year-old legends about him are not reliable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/13/2022 at 2:02 PM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Maybe Coldhand was put through a ritual, using weirwood or obsidian or both, by Bloodraven or the Children of the Forest just before dying that prevented his soul and mind to be enslaved by Others upon undeath. 

I don't think that it was a simple process. 

Why would the COTF do this almost there bit with a human?  It's either done or not I would think?  I am unclear who serves whom in this,  I thought the greenseers were an integral part of the children of the forest community, their shaman, their wise people and their seers.  No subservience here, a group in service to each other.  So why who this group need a thing like Coldhands?  Welp, Coldhands is an anomaly far as we can tell, like Beric and now Lady Stoneheart--just one.  There are at least 6 Others, countless wights a handful of COTF, a greenseer, at least 1 grreendreamer, 5 fire vision seers, a handful of wargs a couple skinchangers and others of varied suspicious psychic ability. I gotta lean into him being something like Bering and LSH since he's the only one. Special.  So maybe a Raven's Tooth ah c'mon he's singular.  Nah, too early.  The ladies were on fire with legends from the Nightfort. Sweet.  Sure, maybe the dad who was frozen in the ice?  Nah, he wouldn't have a uniform?  The Tooth may have died saving BR, big deal.  The dad loved his son.  Again, big deal.  What could make Coldhands special enough to warrant necromancy from the GOTF as a group?  Yah, maybe something exactly like the Last Hero or one of his company.  Or, (This is for YOU @LynnS), or maybe he is the Night King.  OR someone else entirely.  The point is he is someone and his life after life means something to the COTF.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

But isn't it like GRRM taking sides, pagans over organized institutionalized religion? We see only the magic of the Old gods and Red Rahloo work, the 7 is just the Christianity equivalent, proselytizing and being an overall dick. 

Do we really see any religion work?  We see magic work.  We see psychic ability work, but gods?  The gods are not at work here.  Faith is working overtime in some places here and I will be honest there were days during Covid I would have liked a small glass of Shade of the Evening to break up the boredom.  The Faith of the Seven is powerful in Westeros as an organized religion just as R'hllor is mighty in Essos.  The Old Gods is a dying religion among a dying culture.  That is a large part of why the North needs its independence.  "Even their gods are wrong", remember?  If the Old Gods are no more than a hive mind and repository of memory and history what does the North need reading and writing for?  What the hell good are The Others if not to bring and end to a world with little monsters who are capable of creating these awful things?   No my friend, I don't see GRRM on any religion's side here in this story at all.  I think he's pretty clearly against all of them.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Mr_E_Knight said:

Thanks for the response!

As to your point about Coldhands dying "long ago," I do agree with you.  I believe that AWOIAF infers that the Children may live centuries, so "long ago" may even be a reference to the Long Night.  Cold Hands may even be one of the original Companions to The Last Hero.  I could imagine him lying dormant until the Others become active again, after all, his watch shall not end until his "death."

While it is stated that the Royce's are a family decendended from 1st men, he is a Ser.  Ned notes in AGOT that those in the North do no take to the custom of knighting, as it has to do with the ritual of being 'anointed with the 7 oils' and such, denoting it to be a ritual (at least primarily) practiced by those who follow the 7.  I believe that he more than likely took his vows in a Sept, as he did when he became Ser Waymar. 

Ah thanks.  It's a good topic as I am sure you already gather.  There is a lot to Coldhands.  Personally, I liked it better when he was Benjen and I bet he was until that stupid editor asked.  It is a cool idea he could be one of the original Nights Watch.  As to Northmen and knights...  Jorah Mormont is a knight with the title as well.  Which rotten little Hightower Targaryen brat was it knighted there at Tumbledon on the battlefield when he brought his dragon and saved the day?  I doubt the oils were there, but he was a prince.  I'm not sure the ceremony is as important as having a knight do the knighting.  (Daemon the Daring? Doofus the Drooler?)  Still it may be as you say and Waymar did do a 7 ceremony or perhaps the Royce family is like the current Starks and do both the 7 and Old Gods?  Doesn't seem to be a rule about it when you have money and power.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

It doesn't seem that praying to the old gods protects the Free Folk from turning into wights, so I certainly don't think it would protect the Night's Watchmen, either.

I'd prefer that Coldhands was someone that no living character (or reader) ever heard of before.  But if he is a familiar character, I think that Coldhand's identity is most likely the Night's King.  I don't know if the Night's King was good or bad (in between, most likely), but I do know the multi-thousand-year-old legends about him are not reliable.

Welcome Man, you nailed it.  Watching a new show on HBO that shall remain nameless.  It is based on an imaginary history but gives all this dramatic imaginary detail that made my mind turn the ancient stories over in new light now.  Night King is exactly the place my mind went, too.  Wow, it probably didn't happen this way at all. I'm sticking to the idea that this Coldhands is someone important to the COTF and even if he isn't someone we readers know of I'd sure like to know his story.  On the way off chance NK is Coldhands what kind of story does that manifest in your mind!  I went straight to sacrificing to the COTF not the Others and short circuited.   I'm not one to vilify the COTF but that went really bad really quick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...