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[Spoilers] Episode 105 Discussion


Ran
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59 minutes ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

Did I see a bearded Mushroom banging on some drums?

Wait that was Mushroom? 

  

12 minutes ago, miyuki said:

I fear it's more of a "I wished I saw a bearded Mushroom on some drums".

The show won't have Mushroom, because he is too similar to Tyrion. Shame, because his presence would make the entire show very very different. And the show's Saint Tyrion was nothing like Mushroom/Book Tyrion anyway, so even more shame.

They were sooo different! Tyrion was a midget and Mushroom was a dwarf.

Edited by slant
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1 minute ago, slant said:

Wait that was Mushroom? 

Yes. They said there'd be a nod to the chroniclers, and this seems to be it as far as Mushroom goes. I do wonder if the septon officiating the marriage is supposed to be Eustace, since in the Inside the Episode I think Condal just refers to him as a septon rather than the High Septon.

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Re: Alicent, yes, just editing. Given that the chamber and body is cleared out, I'm guessing that what we're seeing is the wedding taking place chronologically after she stops Cole -- she must head out while the mess is being cleaned up, having a sense that Cole is in crisis, and then comes back for the nuptials.

Edited by Ran
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36 minutes ago, Ran said:

Yes. They said there'd be a nod to the chroniclers, and this seems to be it as far as Mushroom goes. I do wonder if the septon officiating the marriage is supposed to be Eustace, since in the Inside the Episode I think Condal just refers to him as a septon rather than the High Septon.

That would be disappointing if we don't get Mushroom at all. I would think he should be around for the bigger time jump ahead, since he will be present for some important things later down the line.

And I always thought Eustace was fairly young, at least around this time.

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The thing about Septon Eustace is that I always found his account more flattering to Rhaenyra than Mushroom’s. He portrayed her as a reasonable young woman who was taken advantage of by sinister men, whereas Mushroom painted her as more scandalous and pig-headed. 
 

This is a bit of a weird observation, but I rewatched the scene between Rhaenyra and Criston, and I found Criston’s voice a little distracting. It’s kind of . . . weasel-y. It sort of undercut his emotional breakdown. Not the actor’s fault, of course.

House Strong is fascinating in how much you can get out of so few scenes. Just the little exchange between Larys and Harwin at the wedding manages to establish their rapport, as does Lyonel’s small nod to Harwin. It’s like they have their own code.

I think Joff’s death would have worked better if it happened during his talk with Criston. Like maybe after Joffrey says they have to “keep each other’s secrets,” he puts his hand on Criston’s arm and he snaps right there. Having Criston calmly seek him out only to then shift to him pummeling Joffrey to death was jarring.

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25 minutes ago, Ran said:

I swear, some of these interviews are so long after filming that everyone -- actors and showrunners alike -- have largely forgotten what they did and are making it up as they go along.

I don’t think that’s true in EC’s case. She’s talked about doing a lot of extra work in fleshing out Alicent’s character and seems very enthusiastic about the role. Plus, the leaks for this season—which have been largely accurate—mentioned Alicent having a crush on Criston early on in the season. 
 

13 minutes ago, nara said:

To be fair, who wouldn’t be? Man is hot and her husband is old!

Hopefully they’ll get it on next season. Poor Alicent never gets to have any fun.

 

Another thing about the preview for next week is that it makes it pretty clear that Lyonel knows Harwin is the father of Rhaenyra’s sons. I’m guessing he did in the books too, but that must have been an uncomfortable secret to sit on for a decade.

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4 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

To be fair, book Alicent and show Alicent are very different characters. 

Yeah, but is there any sign that Alicent is in love with Cole? Like, he's handsome, but there's genuinely nothing there on the screen to support it. Same with remark about filming an episode 4 scene and then justifying the idea that there may be something there by saying, well, they're fourteen, they don't platonic and romantic are separate? But in episode 4, Rhaenyra is like 18! She seems stuck thinking that all five episodes she's in are basically happening next to one another rather than with substantial jumps.

The best one can say is that she has basically developed a head canon that is not on the screen and treats it as if it were, or at least expects it to make sense when she refers to it in interviews.

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The Ending is an absurd finale for what was an outstanding episode.

The gratuitous violence has already crossed the umbral of shocking to become ridiculous, in the bad way. Sadly I don't think that non readers are going to be aware of it so we're in for a stupid ride.

 

Leaving that aside I enjoyed the episode very much. Daemon is just as boring as he's in the books. Matt Smith does what he can but the character just comes as a try hard Jaime Lannister.

Joffrey and Laenor, loved them.

 

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11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Gay men have been having sex with women since the dawn of time. And of course, some people eventually realize they're bisexual (although it's usually the same-sex attraction that comes second). There are still arguments about how much control we have over our sexuality. I think it makes perfect sense that Corlys would believe that Laenor would "grow out of it" eventually.

While this is not completely nonsensical, I still found it childish that they gave Corlys this trait. He could have just as well be a guy who knew and understood the preferences of his son to the point where it was clear to him that he would not really be happy in a relationship with a woman.

And while earlier conceptions didn't phrase this homosexuality as 'sexual identity' - folks would have still realized that people very much tended to prefer the sex they actually felt attracted to.

10 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

The scene with Clubfoot and Queen Alicent in the godswood was expertly directed. Not only was it exquisite to look at, it was rife with a lot of symbolism...specifically the Garden of Eden. Larys Clubhoot hobbling and squirming about like a snake and all the red leaves looked like apples.

He knows exactly what he's doing.

I hated - and loved - every moment of it. It seems to me that they are planting the seeds and laying the foundation for when

  Reveal hidden contents

Larys becomes a full-fledged, near-Satanic agent of chaos at the end of the Dance.

I don't think Larys ever becomes an agent of chaos. More like a guy who tries to stay alive and in charge, no matter what. George is pretty ridiculous when he talks about Larys Strong constantly changing his allegiance. He is Green, Green, Green, Green again, Green, Green ... then for five minutes a Trystane Truefyre fanboy, Green again, Green, Green, and then kind of Black when Aegon II is clearly and utterly done.

Even Larys' game to play Corlys against Alicent/Aegon II should be read as him actually trying to fuck with the Velaryons. Before the Kingsroad there is still a chance the Greens might keep the upper hand in the war, so the Aegon-Jaehaera thing is just a precaution for a worst case scenario, not something he actually wants to roll with.

Have to say, though, I really enjoyed it being confirmed that show Daemon could never consummate his marriage to Rhea.

Thus we are pretty much down to the guy being only able to do it (kind of) with Valyrian-looking women. What a sad fate.

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3 minutes ago, frenin said:

The Ending is an absurd finale for what was an outstanding episode.

The gratuitous violence has already crossed the umbral of shocking to become ridiculous, in the bad way. Sadly I don't think that non readers are going to be aware of it so we're in for a stupid ride.

 

Leaving that aside I enjoyed the episode very much. Daemon is just as boring as he's in the books. Matt Smith does what he can but the character just comes as a try hard Jaime Lannister.

Joffrey and Laenor, loved them.

 

You know what? I agree with that. Daemon is a really boring character. 
 

I liked this article. It nicely summarizes how cartoonishly evil he is now: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/features/house-of-the-dragon-daemon-matt-smith-b2167537.html?amp

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6 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

Alicent's entrance at the party was cool too. And the bit of the Hightower burning green when the Hightowers call their banners to war is not from the books, but I think it fits quite well.

The Hightower burning green when the Hightowers call their banners is straight from the books! Go and reread the part about Oldtown being threatened by Maegor and Visenya in FaB.

6 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

I'm OK with Viserys ensuring the Velaryons that Laenor and Rhaenyra's offspring will get the Iron Thone, but saying that "firstborn child, regardless of gender, will inherit" doesn't feel right to me. Viserys shouldn't be a proto-feminist that fights for equal right. He didn't chose Rhaenyra with the intention of setting a precedent, and many factors other than her being the firstborn also played a part (such as having Targaryen blood on both sides).

I expect that he said this for Rhaenys' benefit there. He does want the Velaryon match to happen, and he knows he has to make concessions. That's why he dragged his ass to Driftmark, after all. He know Rhaenys will like this, meaning chances are good that they might agree to the match.

And who knows - perhaps him insisting that Rhaenyra remain the heir actually caused him to think House Targaryen should adopt Dornish succession law. After Viserys had sons that's what he was doing with Rhaenyra there.

That Rhaenyra had Targaryen blood on both sides played on role at all in 105 AC - Daemon also had Targaryen blood on both sides, he was born of sibling incest, like Viserys himself.

6 hours ago, The hairy bear said:
  • A poor knight from the Dornish Marches should not have "deep knowledge" of the port of Sunspear in those times. This, combined with him supposedly being easily identifiable as a "Dornish", makes me wonder what's the writers idea of his background.

I actually think they kind of confused Sunspear with Storm's End there.

6 hours ago, The hairy bear said:
  • They are going too far in showing Viserys' deterioration. Someone in his state that is constantly passing out shouldn't last a month. How are they planning to make him after the time skip? Also, he should be very aware that he is going to die very soon, and act accordingly.

Actually, I think that's clear misdirection there. He just has a cold and they leech him, which means he is weaker still, explaining why he passes out. What kills him is the spreading infection, not what he had in that episode.

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