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[Spoilers] Episode 105 Discussion


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1 minute ago, DMC said:

You're the one who inserted politics in it by lauding Alicent's "values" in relation to Rhaenyra's and explicitly stating the former's are "conservative" and thus somehow more dignified in the face of the latter's seduction.  You welcomed the politics, live with it.

No, you need to leave me alone. 

Conservative is not only a word for US politics, it's a word to determine characteristics in people. It is based on the context of the society a person comes from. Dignified means: having or showing a composed or serious manner which yes, is my assessment of her character. 

But I don't need to waste my energy with this. I am giving my opinion of a fictional show, not debating politics. You felt the need to make this personal either due to a serious misunderstanding of terminology or just a combative disposition which I don't want to deal with. 

If you are going to act like this, please leave me alone. 

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2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

You felt the need to make this personal either due to a serious misunderstanding of terminology or just a combative disposition which I don't want to deal with. 

Relating an argument about a show to contemporary politics is not making things personal.

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33 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

I dislike it when it when dialogue speaks/explains to the audience. That aside moment felt disruptive. Then again it could be showing us Larry’s gossiping to spread discord. Maybe she was wearing another one of her mother’s dresses and the color was not the intent but the odor

Could be true, but that scene with Larys, sort of reminded me of the “that’s Jamie Lannister; the queens brother” scene, from the first episode of AGoT’s. 

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1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

Which is what you were doing, not me. As a judgment call on my character. 

Be obtuse as much as you want, but you know what your own intention was.

I do know what my intention was - to point out your statement was emblematic of modern GOP or RNC "conservative" creed.  That's NOT personal.  I have no idea who you are and I don't care, if anyone said what you said I'd say the same damn thing.  That's me disagreeing with your viewpoint and subsequently making fun of it.  If you can't handle that, that's your own business.

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

I do know what my intention was - to point out your statement was emblematic of modern GOP or RNC "conservative" creed.  That's NOT personal.  I have no idea who you are and I don't care, if anyone said what you said I'd say the same damn thing.  That's me disagreeing with your viewpoint and subsequently making fun of it.  If you can't handle that, that's your own business.

Whatever is emblematic in your mind isn't my problem, unless I was making direct allusions to contemporary US politics you'd have a point, but I wasn't. I was not referencing them when I identified a character as more conservative. You weren't disagreeing with my viewpoint of the show, you were disagreeing with a perceived political slant in the tone of my language. 

So yeah, deciding to make it about me is already too much. But then deciding to make a comment about my post rather than keeping your opinions about me to yourself makes it even more irrelevant to this thread.  

So next time just leave me alone. 

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2 minutes ago, sifth said:

that scene with Larys, sort of reminded me of the “that’s Jamie Lannister;

Fully agree. I groaned at that.
Should of been introduced another way. Her entrance halting the king was overacted, anticlimactic ? I was kinda hoping for a “girl fight” of snarky jabs in a Emily Brontë style.

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43 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Some people are saying Alicent is 'jealous' of Rhaenyra because of the latter's independence and liberated status. 

But there are women who are just more conservative and don't desire to sleep around and rule over their relationships. There are women who are more passive and raised with certain values and that doesn't make them oppressed. Alicent chooses to be like this because she values her dignity, she values tradition, and she is not rebellious in nature. 

Alicent is jealous and envious of it and the show illustrates this well.

* The scene where she's upset Rhaenyra has so many men fighting over her.

* The reaction of personal betrayal and use of the word fuck with Daemon.

* Her juxtaposition of her miserable sex life with Rhaenyras.

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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11 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I don't remember Daemon's performance issues being a thing in the book. He does have several kids, after all.

No, it's an invention of the show. Maybe he really needs white hair.

Either that or he discovers some Essos oysters that help with it.

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@DMC #daemon I don’t think it was surprising at all. What I found odd is why he waited so long to kill his wife, and not get rid of this “problem” much sooner. That and the idiotic manner he chose, but I can see the arguments you guys have made about his not being a planner and the murder reflects the chaotic mess he is in any situation. The most absurd thing about the scene is the choreography to me. It is sooooo unlikely for the horse to flip back like that. I have seen spooked horses throw riders, I’ve been thrown by spooked horses. The horse could have thrown her in any other far more likely manner and she could still have broken her back. 

Edited by RhaenysBee
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Just now, C.T. Phipps said:

Alicent is jealous and envious of it and the show illustrates this well.

I can’t think of anything. The show did splice their sexual encounters to represent how Rhaenyra was actually enjoying herself but it made no comment on Alicent preceding that lifestyle. 
 

Besides that I can’t think of anything. Alicent doesn’t want her throne, she doesn’t want Cole, and she doesn’t particularly like riding dragons. 
 

So what does Rhaenyra have that Alicent wants?

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37 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Are we supposed to be deeply upset someone that ordered a child who's a member of his family to be murdered in the book murdered his wife in the show?

I don't have anything against Daemon being shown as the monster he is. My gripe is with the handling of this scene in the show. They portray the wife as annoying and condescending towards the husband as if "the bitch had it coming". She even thinks that the husband came to kill her, so that she acts first and she literally ends up having it coming. Even then, they give the agency to the horse instead of the husband. They let the wife be even more annoying on the ground so that the husband who was walking away would feel no guilt about "mercy-killing" the wife. Yes, the whole thing looks like it was not cold blooded murder but Daemon mercy-killed the bitch of a wife who had it coming.

Edited by Mithras
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Just now, RhaenysBee said:

I don’t think it was surprising at all. What I found odd is why he waited so long to kill his wife, and not get rid of this “problem” much sooner. That and the idiotic manner he chose, but I can see the arguments you guys have made about his not being a planner and the murder reflects the chaotic mess he is in any situation. The most absurd thing about the scene is the choreography to me. It is sooooo unlikely for the horse to flip back like that. I have seen spooked horses throw riders, I’ve been thrown by spooked horses. The horse could have thrown her in any other far more likely manner and she could still have broken her back. 

A simpler non emotional reaction to Daemon's lack of killing his wife is the fact that she was something he could safely ignore until he was banished there for the second time. Also, Rhaenyra wasn't someone that was old enough to marry or seemingly interested. Except in King's Landing he found out she was interested.

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4 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

So yeah, deciding to make it about me is already too much.

I didn't decide to make it about you, you did.  So yeah, in the future please stop trying to blow a joke I make way out of proportion - and subsequently waste my time and a bunch of space in the process.

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Just now, butterweedstrover said:

So what does Rhaenyra have that Alicent wants?

An attractive lover, the independence to defy social convention, the ability to spurn those she doesn't care for, and the unconditional support of her father.

Alicent is trapped by duty to be in a marriage with a man she hates and to obey her father and to obey convention.

Rhaenyra does what she wants and gets away with it.

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4 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

The most absurd thing about the scene is the choreography to me. It is sooooo unlikely for the horse to flip back like that. I have seen spooked horses throw riders, I’ve been thrown by spooked horses. The horse could have thrown her in any other far more likely manner and she could still have broken her back. 

Oh, sure, not arguing that at all.

I do think, as mentioned by others, that the timing does make sense.  He had no or at least little reason to do this before.  But now he's desperate -- and now he thinks he's got a shot at Rhaenyra.  That changes things.

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1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said:

An attractive lover, the independence to defy social convention, the ability to spurn those she doesn't care for, and the unconditional support of her father.

Alicent is trapped by duty to be in a marriage with a man she hates and to obey her father and to obey convention.

Rhaenyra does what she wants and gets away with it.

That is more your inference than what show is actually depicting. 
 

And regardless, Rhaenyra’s life isn’t an alternative to her problems. Just because her duties have her trapped in a loveless marriage doesn’t mean she wishes to be Rhaenyra.

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