[Spoilers] Episode 105 Discussion

[TormundsWoman]

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well have to say this sounds like you jumping to conclusions more than anything else.

The second scene we see of Daemon in the pilot is him rounding up and murdering people.  He's a murdering bastard from the start.  I didn't see many complaints about that, because this is indeed how he's depicted and how the society he functions in works.  Is it "worse" that he murders his wife, who is highborn and a woman?  In some respects, yes.  But it's not particularly surprising based on his character - both in the books and the show.  You can still call him "grey" as a character, but like I said he's "grey" in the same way Jaime is "grey," - pretty damn dark in most objective ways.

So Daemon once again proved he's a murdering bastard because his wife was in his way.  I honestly didn't mean to make this association until writing this post, but using the term murdering bastard reminded me of this:

 

I rarely jump to conclusions. I tend to read or listen a lot before I type anything.

It simply sounds like you have a more similar view on what constitutes a grey character with Condal and Martin than I have. Kudos to you for understanding their writing better than me. However you asked a question and I answered since no one seemed to and I don’t see any reason to go further into it.

[DMC]

25 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

yes, it does and it probably is. In my defense, I don’t really have an alternative, when you introduce a character with a first line that’s already rude, give me 2 minutes of trading insults, then kill her right off without backstory. I’m going on what I have. (And sure I could read the books, I accept that, but no, sorry, I won’t)

Nah, it had nothing to do with the books.  Hell, if Rhea even has any characterization in the books I don't really remember it.  To be fair, I'm jumping to conclusions too in liking her - she seemed like a fun character who would tell her cousin to fuck off and do what she wants.  I enjoyed that, you did not.  To each their own!

10 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

I rarely jump to conclusions. I tend to read or listen a lot before I type anything.

To be clear, I wasn't saying you were jumping to conclusions, I was saying RhaenysBee was, see above.

[RhaenysBee]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

To be fair, I'm jumping to conclusions too in liking her - she seemed like a fun character who would tell her cousin to fuck off and do what she wants.  I enjoyed that, you did not.  To each their own!

Huh, there’s no high-five emoji…. Oh well, high five anyway.  

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

Huh, there’s no high-five emoji…. Oh well, high five anyway.  

There is a cheers emoji though:

[Lord Varys]

Regarding the Daemon issue:

Thinking about it, the guy is really poorly written and characterized in the show. Does the guy really want to marry Rhaenyra? After he couldn't even fuck her last episode? If so, why? Does he covet the Iron Throne after all ... or not? We know that things are unclear as fuck in the book ... but that's a TV show which can and does focus on details. But with Daemon little makes sense at this point.

Did he come to murder Rhea? If so - why? Is this a premeditated murder to free himself for Rhaenyra or Laena ... or not? If so, why doesn't he act during the wedding and claims Rhaenyra before she can marry Laenor - as she herself taunts that he does?

It would have worked much better, I think, if there had been buildup or an explanation for this - say, Daemon and Rhea living together at Runestone and thinks he really get more and more tense because they cannot stand each other (i.e. Daemon cannot perform his marital duties ;-)).

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

here's the thing, knowing about something isn't the same as understanding it . even today there are parents who may seem completely ok with homosexuality , accept it , even have homosexual friends and acquaintances , but when it turns out their kid is gay , they find it difficult to understand and accept it . Corlys may be aware of sexual preferences or even accepting of it considering his journeys but Laenor is his son . he is clearly in denial about his son . it's just wishful thinking that now that he'll have a wife and Rhaenyra has grown comely , Laenor may come out of his "phase".  Steostone campaign where there is shortage of women and there is one comely ser Joffrey nearby actually make it easier for Corlys to stay in his denial .

I know what the character Corlys is supposed to be about there in the show. I just would have liked it better if he hadn't been that close-minded or mistaken. And while we are at it - I'd have also preferred it if Rhaenys rather than Corlys had put forth Laena as bride for Viserys. It was her bloodline that was passed over by Jaehaerys and the Great Council, so it should have been her desire to rectify that mistake.

Corlys pushing both his children into arranged marriages and then actually hoping that his son starts to like the bride he chose for him is kind of hypocritical if you think about it. Independent of Laenor's sexual preferences - he may not have been willing to live with her. Like, you know, Daemon and Rhea.

In the book Rhaenyra dislikes the Laenor match for similar reasons. There this marriage is a failure from the start, and while they may have come to an understanding eventually ... it is just as likely 'their understanding' was just that they didn't live together and only interacted with each other when they had to.

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

Regarding Daemon , I agree with @The Bard of Banefort. there's no coming back from that . B&CH moment could be put into category of "things we do for love" , explained by revenge desire of a grieving step-father . Daemon would still be a villain but you could argue that .killing his wife out of greed , though was just horrible ,not to mention, stupid because he didn't do anything he wanted afterwards.  considering this guy will be in the show almost to the bitter end and there's another one of him in the making , makes the whole thing frustrating! if they're smart they should revisit this moment , show Rhaenyra in denial about Daemon's actions , only to realize what a monster she has married after B&Ch . or something like that . 

Well, one can forget that he did that since we don't really care about the Rhea woman. But there is certainly no excuse or justification for this.

I guess things will only get worse when Daemon arranges Laenor's murder so he can finally marry Rhaenyra. Because that's what we would expect to happen here.

Considering the preview for next episode - they seem to have separated the Strong plot from the Vhagar incident. After the birth of Joffrey the looks of the children alone will be the reason why Harwin is sent away, I imagine.

[TormundsWoman]

16 minutes ago, DMC said:

To be clear, I wasn't saying you were jumping to conclusions, I was saying RhaenysBee was, see above.

Weeell shit. :X

That was not the quote I should have answered to!

#LikeAnAssOneLooks

#OutIWillLetMyself

[DMC]

21 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

Weeell shit. :X

It happens.  Don't be so hard on yourself!

[Mithras]

If these HotD writers make an adaptation of the Shining, I can already see their version of Jack Torrance. It would probably weird out even King himself.

[Ran]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

mean that's kind of my point. Daemon has a plan and he ditches it mid-setup.

I mean, he ditches it because he finds himself unable to carry through with the plan.

Does his ominous complete silence through his entire encounter with Rhea sound like he was breaking his plan for his encounter with her? I don't think so.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

So what's the deal with the Alicent/Larys scene? Why is he stirring the pot already?

[Ran]

4 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

So what's the deal with the Alicent/Larys scene? Why is he stirring the pot already?

He sees an opportunity to ingratiate himself with the queen. He offers her information of value, she remembers it. It opens doors. 

[EggBlue]

22 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

So what's the deal with the Alicent/Larys scene? Why is he stirring the pot already?

I see it as a moment of "I'm prince of Dorne , people seek my favor" moment . she is the queen , if he befriends her now , he will always be her friend .

[C.T. Phipps]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Well have to say this sounds like you jumping to conclusions more than anything else.

The second scene we see of Daemon in the pilot is him rounding up and murdering people.  He's a murdering bastard from the start.  I didn't see many complaints about that, because this is indeed how he's depicted and how the society he functions in works.  Is it "worse" that he murders his wife, who is highborn and a woman?  In some respects, yes.  But it's not particularly surprising based on his character - both in the books and the show.  You can still call him "grey" as a character, but like I said he's "grey" in the same way Jaime is "grey," - pretty damn dark in most objective ways.

So Daemon once again proved he's a murdering bastard because his wife was in his way.  I honestly didn't mean to make this association until writing this post, but using the term murdering bastard reminded me of this:

 

I mean one group is a bunch of rapists and criminals in the worst part of King's Landing that the Smallfolk laud him for and the other part is his innocent wife he kills for ambition.

So yes.

[C.T. Phipps]

27 minutes ago, Ran said:

I mean, he ditches it because he finds himself unable to carry through with the plan.

Does his ominous complete silence through his entire encounter with Rhea sound like he was breaking his plan for his encounter with her? I don't think so.

I don't think there's any plan. I mentioned I saw Daemon as just returning "home" in secret and then freaking the hell out of the horse before killing her in a moment of opportunity.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean one group is a bunch of rapists and criminals in the worst part of King's Landing that the Smallfolk laud him for and the other part is his innocent wife he kills for ambition.

 

Rounding up a bunch of "rapists and criminals" and handing out summary justice may be great for the "smallfolk," but that's certainly not something I morally absolve as a reader/viewer.

[Ran]

8 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mentioned I saw Daemon as just returning "home" in secret and then freaking the hell out of the horse before killing her in a moment of opportunity.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to. He meant to kill her. That's a plan.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I wonder if they’re going to portray Larys as infatuated with Alicent.

Spoiler

Especially considering all the foot fetish stuff.

At least he’d have a real motivation , unlike in the books.

Edited September 20, 2022 by The Bard of Banefort

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wonder if they’re going to portray Larys as infatuated with Alicent.

  Hide contents

Especially considering all the foot fetish stuff.

 

He seems to see a similarity between himself and Alicent, at least that's something one can take from the whole outsider talk. But he is clearly not there just to ingratiate himself - he wants to create and fuel existing tension to make himself useful. Somewhat like Littlefinger. Pretty nasty that he actually is the guy who destroyed the friendship between Rhaenyra and Alicent.

[TheValonqarThatWasAzorAhai]

Did anyone else have “Islands in the Stream” playing in their heads when Cole was asking Rhaenyra to run away with him?

[The Bard of Banefort]

Some promising clips from next episode: