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[Spoilers] Episode 105 Discussion


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Allicent & Rhaenyra are so fundamentally different women.

 

Allicent is the dutiful rule following woman while Rhaneyra is the one who bucks against the system. Allicent doesn't take accountability for her own wrong actions in courting Viserys being Rhaenyra's back because she was only doing her duty towards her father. Now any actions that she takes against Rhaenyra are going to be under the tent of duty towards her sons. She has a lot of self pity & views that only she has made sacrifices while Rhaneyra is getting off scott free even when she has not been dutiful. This perception of Rhaenyra seems to be stemming from what she has been taught to be a role of woman in the society. 

Rhaenyra is a bad woman because she lost her virginity before marriage & lied about it. Otto was fired even though he was telling the truth. But she is blindly ignoring Otto's own role against Rhaenyra. Allicent herself seems to dislike Targaryen custom of marriage within close relations but her father was advocating for arranging marriage between her 2 yr old son & Rhaneyra. In future Aegon II is going to marry his sister. Such hypocrisy much wow.

If something is done by Rhaenyra than it is wrong if same thing or even worse done by herself than it is ok. I mean what action is worse- Otto & herself taking advantage of emotionally vulnerable Viserys to get married to him hiding it from Rhaenyra or Rhaneyra hiding her sexual escapade & lying about it to protect herself. Where does Allicent get the moral high ground to judge Rhaenyra?

Allicent herself entered into the relationship with Viserys on behest of her father. Viserys & Rhaenyra didn't force her to do so. So if she is now not happy with Viserys as a husband then it is a bed of her own making. If she has a problem with it she herself has to do something to get out of that situation. She just tolerates it in the name of duty & then expects to be rewarded for it. That is why even when I can sympathise with her for certain things I cannot side with her. 

 

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4 hours ago, HOTDfresher said:

Allicent & Rhaenyra are so fundamentally different women.

 

Allicent is the dutiful rule following woman while Rhaneyra is the one who bucks against the system. Allicent doesn't take accountability for her own wrong actions in courting Viserys being Rhaenyra's back because she was only doing her duty towards her father. Now any actions that she takes against Rhaenyra are going to be under the tent of duty towards her sons. She has a lot of self pity & views that only she has made sacrifices while Rhaneyra is getting off scott free even when she has not been dutiful. This perception of Rhaenyra seems to be stemming from what she has been taught to be a role of woman in the society. 

Rhaenyra is a bad woman because she lost her virginity before marriage & lied about it. Otto was fired even though he was telling the truth. But she is blindly ignoring Otto's own role against Rhaenyra. Allicent herself seems to dislike Targaryen custom of marriage within close relations but her father was advocating for arranging marriage between her 2 yr old son & Rhaneyra. In future Aegon II is going to marry his sister. Such hypocrisy much wow.

If something is done by Rhaenyra than it is wrong if same thing or even worse done by herself than it is ok. I mean what action is worse- Otto & herself taking advantage of emotionally vulnerable Viserys to get married to him hiding it from Rhaenyra or Rhaneyra hiding her sexual escapade & lying about it to protect herself. Where does Allicent get the moral high ground to judge Rhaenyra?

Allicent herself entered into the relationship with Viserys on behest of her father. Viserys & Rhaenyra didn't force her to do so. So if she is now not happy with Viserys as a husband then it is a bed of her own making. If she has a problem with it she herself has to do something to get out of that situation. She just tolerates it in the name of duty & then expects to be rewarded for it. That is why even when I can sympathise with her for certain things I cannot side with her. 

 

 

yes . that is something that's not being addressed enough . the whole Rhaenyra's betrayal for lying to her friend is played up so much ( never mind that it was clear that the way Alicent was talking about it with disgust surely had a role in Rhaenyra's mistrust of her) , while Alicent herself had been hiding the fact that she'd been visiting Rhaenyra's father ever since queen Aemma's death. (the king asked her to hide it only after 6 months when he apparently felt something more than just companionship!) 

besides , if we are going to go deep, in ep 2 when Otto is leaving at night he asks Alicent if she'll visit the king tonight , to which she answers "if you wish it" the next time we see Viserys and Alicent in the same room , he announces their wedding plan . now, that's a good implication that Alicent had spent the night with Viserys , if anything ! 

Edited by EggBlue
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38 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

yes . that is something that's not being addressed enough . the whole Rhaenyra's betrayal for lying to her friend is played up so much ( never mind that it was clear that the way Alicent was talking about it with disgust surely had a role in Rhaenyra's mistrust of her) , while Alicent herself had been hiding the fact that she'd been visiting Rhaenyra's father ever since queen Aemma's death. (the king asked her to hide it only after 6 months when he apparently felt something more than just companionship!) 

Agreed.  Alicent clearly thinks she has the moral high ground, but we as the viewer should know that's not true.  It's hard to blame Alicent for her father pressuring her into that relationship, but you'd think based on that she'd be MORE understanding of Rhaenyra's reticence to that life, not less.  The latter is just jealousy cloaked in moral superiority, which of course is something that is still rankly pervasive to this day.

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A lot of you probably won’t like this article, but it touches on some things that have been discussed here in the past, such as whether grimdark is still appealing, and how there can’t be any progress in terms of injustice because this story is a prequel.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/tv/hbo/house-of-the-dragon-women-game-of-thrones-fantasy-tv/

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6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

A lot of you probably won’t like this article, but it touches on some things that have been discussed here in the past, such as whether grimdark is still appealing, and how there can’t be any progress in terms of injustice because this story is a prequel.

I don't find any of the arguments made in that article objectionable at all.  It's rather undeniable - HotD is inherently limited based on the "timeframe" it's depicting - plus it being a prequel limits it further.  So what?

Last time I checked shows were produced to make money, not to save society from its inevitable collapse.

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

A lot of you probably won’t like this article, but it touches on some things that have been discussed here in the past, such as whether grimdark is still appealing, and how there can’t be any progress in terms of injustice because this story is a prequel.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/tv/hbo/house-of-the-dragon-women-game-of-thrones-fantasy-tv/

Seems like the person who wrote that article, is not a fan of prequels.

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7 minutes ago, sifth said:

Seems like the person who wrote that article, is not a fan of prequels.

Speaking as a writer for Grimdark Magazine, I admit people who think grimdark is dead or a bad idea are people I tune out.

Basically, it assumes that "happy endings" are somehow progressive, which is nonsense.

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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1 hour ago, DMC said:

Dude, like, the Dead and Buddy Holly are way more chill.

But not so grimdark!

Quote

Nettles: Guess I meant, I dunno... a happier ending... for everyone involved.

Daemon Targaryen: Here, for folks like us? Wrong kingdom, wrong people.

 

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4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

A lot of you probably won’t like this article, but it touches on some things that have been discussed here in the past, such as whether grimdark is still appealing, and how there can’t be any progress in terms of injustice because this story is a prequel.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/tv/hbo/house-of-the-dragon-women-game-of-thrones-fantasy-tv/

Why wouldn’t we like it? It is just one person’s opinion. You either agree with it or you don’t. I don’t. And I also agree with others above that this writer does not seem to like prequels which is a fine. But the numbers this show is generating speak for themselves. The show is a big hit. Will if ever reach GOT season 8 numbers? Almost assuredly no but it doesn’t have to.

Edited by El Guapo
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1 hour ago, El Guapo said:

Why wouldn’t we like it? It is just one person’s opinion. You either agree with it or you don’t. I don’t. And I also agree with others above that this writer does not seem to like prequels which is a fine. But the numbers this show is generating speak for themselves. The show is a big hit. Will if ever reach GOT season 8 numbers? Almost assuredly no but it doesn’t have to.

I mean, people here seem pretty annoyed by it, so I was hesitant to share it, yeah.

Edited by The Bard of Banefort
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For what it’s worth, I don’t think the person behind that article was saying that there shouldn’t be prequels. I think it comes back to the idea of GOT as a cultural phenomenon, which I have struggled to put into words myself. You know how you get tired of seeing Marvel movies everywhere? It’s like that. I much prefer that HOTD is just a popular TV show that fans seek out, as we do here, then a sensation that you can’t escape, as GOT was. And in terms of discourse, whatever the hot show of the moment is takes a prominent spot in pop culture—I think this person is trying to convey that they’d rather a different type of fantasy show be given that prominence now, since there will inevitably be copycats. Obviously there is some fatigue over the treatment of women, otherwise HOTD wouldn’t be trying to amend that itself.
 

Speaking of which, has anyone read any of the other books she mentioned? Are they any good?

Edited by The Bard of Banefort
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The fact that Martin’s world is still pulling such numbers is befuddling to me. 
 

This has to be a bubble. The books are good but his world isn’t very original or unique. And the concept of grimdak is nothing new. Actually if we’re using the definition of Martin I guess Euphoria is grimdark as well as every other television drama. 
 

This pseudo-medieval society has nothing that can make it survive as a cinematic universe and the I iconic characters are already dead.

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3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

You must have experienced this before, where something you think is stupid is massively popular. 

I mean the longevity. Game of Thrones worked at the time because it was coming off of fantasy like Harry Potter and LotR as an adult version with a gripping story. 
 

Now it’s assets are a world without much to differentiate itself, the standard dark self serious tone, and stories separate from the main series 

Edited by butterweedstrover
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