[Spoilers] Episode 105 Discussion

[Ran]

The scene with Rhaenyra and Laenor follows right on a really, really strong opener. It's excellent stuff, and the rapport between Rhaenyra and Laenor is great. John MacMillan does a terrific job with the character.

[DMC]

Ok about this foot stuff - is Tarantino directing an episode?  Because if so that'd be awesome.  I can endure a healthy amount of weird foot porn if it means he directs the rest of the ep.

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

He seems to see a similarity between himself and Alicent, at least that's something one can take from the whole outsider talk. But he is clearly not there just to ingratiate himself - he wants to create and fuel existing tension to make himself useful. Somewhat like Littlefinger. Pretty nasty that he actually is the guy who destroyed the friendship between Rhaenyra and Alicent.

Big spoiler territory here:

Spoiler

Him killing his father so Alicent could bring Otto back sounds like the sort of thing a guy who is obsessed with a woman would do (taken to the extreme, of course).

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

The scene with Rhaenyra and Laenor follows right on a really, really strong opener. It's excellent stuff, and the rapport between Rhaenyra and Laenor is great. John MacMillan does a terrific job with the character.

Yeah, even in this little clip he’s oozing charisma. 
 

I’m most excited about seeing Rhaenyra interact with Harwin. It’s been disappointing how little they’ve done to set up this relationship so far.

[Lord Varys]

3 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Big spoiler territory here:

  Hide contents

Him killing his father so Alicent could bring Otto back sounds like the sort of thing a guy who is obsessed with a woman would do (taken to the extreme, of course).

 

Of course, but that's over ten years later, so we have no idea how things go there.

Since they seem to go that way

Spoiler

I imagine that rather than Criston Cole starting an affair with the widowed Alicent, she might end up with Larys. In fact, that the guy ends up only saving Aegon and his children from Rhaenyra could hint at their relationship not going into the direction Larys would have liked.

 

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m most excited about seeing Rhaenyra interact with Harwin. It’s been disappointing how little they’ve done to set up this relationship so far.

I'm totally running with the Harwin-bot thing I mentioned yesterday.  When he dies at Harrenhal I fully expect him to give Rhaenyra and Jace the thumbs up as he descends into the fires.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

8 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m most excited about seeing Rhaenyra interact with Harwin. It’s been disappointing how little they’ve done to set up this relationship so far.

I'm not sure how much interaction between them we'll actually see. We know from the preview that the Strong boys are already born in the next episode.

[sifth]

So I'm a little confused by the ending. Did they choose to have the wedding shortly after Cole beat Ser. Joffrey to death at the feast? What about the tournament and feasting they had planned? It looked like the wedding happened, with Ser. Joffrey's blood still staining the floor and the mess not even cleaned up. I find that rather strange.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

Did they choose to have the wedding shortly after Cole beat Ser. Joffrey to death at the feast? What about the tournament and feasting they had planned? It looked like the wedding happened, with Ser. Joffrey's blood still staining the floor and the mess not even cleaned up. I find that rather strange.

Yeah, seems as if they cancelled the festivities, which I suppose makes sense after experiencing the worst wedding crasher ever.  But you're right, that seemed to be, like, a rehearsal dinner before shit went down.  This is what happens when HBO/Warner Brothers/Discovery is paying for your wedding.  You never know!

[EggBlue]

37 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Big spoiler territory here:

  Hide contents

Him killing his father so Alicent could bring Otto back sounds like the sort of thing a guy who is obsessed with a woman would do (taken to the extreme, of course).

 

that'd be extreme to a new level . especially that so far he seems close to his brother.

34 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, even in this little clip he’s oozing charisma. 
 

yeah . so sad he'll die in ...next episode I guess?

34 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m most excited about seeing Rhaenyra interact with Harwin. It’s been disappointing how little they’ve done to set up this relationship so far.

that. I'm also looking forward to see a small interaction between Harwin and Laenor . that's a strange relationship to explore in medieval setting:) 

32 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

  Hide contents

I imagine that rather than Criston Cole starting an affair with the widowed Alicent, she might end up with Larys. In fact, that the guy ends up only saving Aegon and his children from Rhaenyra could hint at their relationship not going into the direction Larys would have liked.

 

makes sense to me . however , he still works for the Greens ... why not change sides? 

[sifth]

51 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah, seems as if they cancelled the festivities, which I suppose makes sense after experiencing the worst wedding crasher ever.  But you're right, that seemed to be, like, a rehearsal dinner before shit went down.  This is what happens when HBO/Warner Brothers/Discovery is paying for your wedding.  You never know!

It's sort of funny, that they fast tracked the wedding after watching a man get beaten to death in front of them. They might of wanted to at least take a few days to clean the place up and maybe grieve. I also wonder if the death of Ser. Joffrey counts as violating guests rights, because he did nothing wrong and was murdered when he was a guest of the crown.

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Ok about this foot stuff - is Tarantino directing an episode?  Because if so that'd be awesome.  I can endure a healthy amount of weird foot porn if it means he directs the rest of the ep.

Spoiler

I was thinking about this, is the idea supposed to be that because his foot is messed up he really appreciates a good foot? 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by RumHam

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

Yeah, seems as if they cancelled the festivities, which I suppose makes sense after experiencing the worst wedding crasher ever.

The worst wedding crasher until the next one.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

The worst wedding crasher until the next one.

Well, at least the other wedding crashers had a tangible objective.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm not sure how much interaction between them we'll actually see. We know from the preview that the Strong boys are already born in the next episode.

@Ran Are there any good scenes between Rhaenyra and Harwin next episode? (He was featured pretty prominently in the promo, so I don’t think it’s a spoiler).

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

that'd be extreme to a new level . especially that so far he seems close to his brother.

yeah . so sad he'll die in ...next episode I guess?

that. I'm also looking forward to see a small interaction between Harwin and Laenor . that's a strange relationship to explore in medieval setting:) 

makes sense to me . however , he still works for the Greens ... why not change sides? 

I think that Harwin’s death will be collateral damage. In one of the promos that came out recently, there was a scene of Lyonel trying to bust down a locked door as the room was filling with smoke. I think it’ll be an assassination.

 

I hope that Condal gets over his aversion to flashbacks. It would be nice for the rest of the series to be peppered with flashbacks of stuff we missed (Rhaenyra with Harwin, Daemon with Laena, Rhaenyra and Alicent being friends). Imagine how powerful it would be if Alicent discovering Aegon’s dead body was juxtaposed with the first time she held him in his arms between episodes two and three.

Just like how Rhaenyra having five kids* is a weird decision considering her fear of childbirth, Otto instructing Alicent to prepare Aegon to rule is also weird judging by how much of lout Aegon turns into.

*I thought of another reason why Rhaenyra may have kept having children. Perhaps she was hoping to get one with silver hair to put an end to the speculation over the boys’ parentage.

[VisenyaTargaryen]

I promised myself I'd finally stop being a lurker and start posting, so here I go:

I don't know what to make of this episode, tbh. The beginning was good, with Viserys visiting High Tide, Corlys & Rhaenys being a lovely couple, and Rhaenyra being a bit more mature/calmer. The settings and the music were great, the pacing was good, I always love those 10-second scenes where Harwin appears, and I'm always happy to see Lyonel on screen, who's been one of my favorites since the beginning...

But the bad parts bothered me more than in other episodes (the previous one was my favorite, btw).

- Criston violating guest right, murdering Joffrey and not being stopped and arrested was ridiculous. And based on the trailer/promo, it seems that Harwin will be the one who gets punished and sent away from court for getting into a fight with Cole (which is a shame, because I was looking forward to seeing his relationship with Rhaenyra and the kids ). I guess it shows how Alicent will have more influence and the court will become "greener", which I only expected to happen after the princess was sent to Dragonstone.

- Speaking of Alicent, I wish she had been given more agency right from the start and portrayed as more cunning and less of a victim than she is. Making her sympathetic was a great choice and she became a compelling character, but it got a bit tiring, imo. Even if she becomes more neurotic, I think (based on the leaks) that this "trend" will continue to annoy me (I hope I'm wrong, though). I also wish HOTD had made others more sympathetic and nuanced as well, which brings me to...

- Daemon killing Rhea, and in such a weird manner. I thought HotD would take the opportunity to show us why GRRM thinks he's a great grey character, but to me he got too dark and too soon (I never believed the rumors of his involvement in Rhea's - or Laenor's - death in the book). Tbh, the show is doing a great job at making the Blacks the least likable bunch (except for Corlys and Rhaenys, imo), almost like F&B did with the Greens. I'm not sure I like it but it's been an interesting experience nonetheless.

- Viserys' illness (and this is also about the show as a whole): not only it seems too severe for a king who'll live for another 15 years or so, I think it makes an already grim story even grimmer. I admit that's more of a me problem than a HotD one, though. I was never thrilled about the Dance being adapted because just reading about it was too depressing, with women, children, and dragons dying horribly one after another, until it ends with an orphan kid with PTSD as a king. Watching it on screen will be harder than I thought, and knowing the ending makes me less excited about it all. The Dance hasn't even started yet and now I get the complaints about HotD being joyless. I can't help but remember and miss those Arya scenes in the first season of GOT, in which she has father/daughter moments with Ned, throws food at Sansa during a feast, has dance lessons with Syrio, or tries to impress Jon by asking Nymeria to bring her her gloves but the wolf just stares at her...

Either way, I'm still watching the show, even if I have to emotionally prepare myself for the whole drama and whatever awful thing will happen next.

[Ran]

11 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Are there any good scenes between Rhaenyra and Harwin next episode? (He was featured pretty prominently in the promo, so I don’t think it’s a spoiler).

From memory, there's two scenes. Maybe three. I think they work to establish the relationship with her and also the children. There's one or two more scenes that feature him, without her.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Speaking of the Strongs. . . In the books, it’s mentioned that Lyonel brought his daughters to court too. Assuming they didn’t all die off page, they presumably married noblemen. So even if the Strong name is dead, wouldn’t the bloodline have survived? I always wondered this about House Hoare too.

[C.T. Phipps]

Like I said, I am very excited at the idea that Daemon may actually be behind Blood and Cheese now.

 

[sifth]

12 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Like I said, I am very excited at the idea that Daemon may actually be behind Blood and Cheese now.

 

He wasn't in the book?