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[Spoilers] Episode 105 Discussion


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15 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m in a weird position where I think this show is both good and overrated. It’s weird that so few people are willing to criticize it. 

I can criticize it but there's nothing else like it on TV so you accept what you're given.

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1 hour ago, Mithras said:

Expectation: historical realism, aristocrats acting like aristocrats

Reality: The O.C. with tits and dragons

The show is totally aristocrats acting like aristocrats -- that's all it is.  You can say it's the OC or the Kardasians or whatever, but that's the damn show.  A bunch of whiny over-privileged fucks whining about the succession.  Pretty sure there's some other dumbass soap opera that's called the latter.

As for historical realism, well no.

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m in a weird position where I think this show is both good and overrated. It’s weird that so few people are willing to criticize it. 

That's a sign that most people are enjoying it. It's only when people get disappointed and start disliking a few too many aspects do they start putting on their critic goggles. 

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3 hours ago, Mithras said:

Expectation: historical realism, aristocrats acting like aristocrats

Yea, I was hoping for more political maneuvering, and courtly banter with the a classic “Only the strong. Might makes everything I do alright.” Character.
I would much prefer  Jane Austin style quips and love interests than a two minute scene of Cole and Rheanys making fuck face at each other.

 The brothel scene, I get it. She has gone to a lower level of lust. But really they could have done better.


 

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31 minutes ago, Gigei said:

a Kingsguard straight up beat someone to death, but not in the middle of a wedding

"A Dothraki wedding without at least three deaths is deemed a dull affair," 

I agree with the Dothraki. As far as Westerosi weddings go this one had the falling action of a dick softener.

Better to have not forced a wedding expectation with bloodshed. Try a different shocker.
I like how the king just sat there eating  and I guess everyone decided to leave? Seven day party’s over? People just went home?
One “fight” and a body would be cleared and cleaned and everyone would move on. 

Edited by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe
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5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m in a weird position where I think this show is both good and overrated. It’s weird that so few people are willing to criticize it. 

I'm in the same spot. I like the show, but I feel like there's a need for criticism, since so few people express what I feel like is an issue.

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5 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I'm in the same spot. I like the show, but I feel like there's a need for criticism, since so few people express what I feel like is an issue.

I agree with this. I've been more or less enjoying the show so far . but it's got some serious issues that needs to be addressed . coming back from some of which (Daemon's odd and honestly repetitive character) would need work. 

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58 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I agree with this. I've been more or less enjoying the show so far . but it's got some serious issues that needs to be addressed . coming back from some of which (Daemon's odd and honestly repetitive character) would need work. 

It's the same with me as well. I understand the writers are in a though space, where they're only adapting stuff from a history book. However some of the changes are not ones I agree with. It feels like one of those biopic films, which usually changes certain events that happened in history, to make the story their film is about more dramatic. The recent Elvis film, was filled with quite a lot of these.

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18 hours ago, TormundsWoman said:

Yes, I think you took my comment out of the entire exchange between myself, RhaenysBee, who hasn’t read the book but was responding to a comment made for the book Daemon and Ser Yorkic, who did talk about book Daemon.

However, to answer your post while keeping the parameters of the exchange:

Book wise (which is the original quote that initiated RhaenysBee response and my comment) at that moment Daemon did not needed her to die pronto. He also supposedly fell in love with Laena after he flew back from the Vale and married her after provoking and killing her suitor in a duel. No designs in Rhaenyra quite at that moment bookwise.

That's a big supposedly we are hinging Daemon's innocence on. People were disgusted by how short a time of mourning he gave Laena before moving on to better prospects.

He's tried to have his marriage set aside. He's tried to convince the King to let him marry Rhaenyra as a second wife after damaging her reputation, he tried to give his unborn bastard child a dragonegg with the intent to treat them as his trueborn heir. None of it worked, then Rhae dies, within a year he remarries, gets his new wife with child with twins that would just barely be old enough to participate in the Dance of Dragons only at the very end of the war. This is all in the show and in the books. In the books he seemingly got lucky after years of wasting his time trying to circumvent the Rhae problem by less effective means. In show he definitely took steps to solve the problem he faced. In both cases it's baffling he waited as long as he did and narratively speaking ran out of time before this event needed to happen for him.

Edited by Denam_Pavel
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8 hours ago, Mithras said:

Expectation: historical realism, aristocrats acting like aristocrats

Reality: The O.C. with tits and dragons

So... kinda like the actual Dance of the Dragons. 

More often than not Asoiaf's characters are just from a soap opera.

BTW, how do aristocrats act that makes it so different than this lot?

 

7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m in a weird position where I think this show is both good and overrated. It’s weird that so few people are willing to criticize it. 

It's good but what it really has going for it is that most of the fantasy series so far have been subpar,  so it shines even more by comparison.

If they could just not just have random violence, then it'd be really good.

Sadly I think it all goes downhill from here, there's little to scratch from the Dance but endless gore.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I'm in the same spot. I like the show, but I feel like there's a need for criticism, since so few people express what I feel like is an issue.

Yeah, maybe we’ll see some after the season is over, but there has been a notable lack of analyses so far (unlike LOTR or every Marvel or Star Wars show, which are broken down in minute detail). It makes you wonder what everyone else is seeing that you’re not.

17 minutes ago, frenin said:

So... kinda like the actual Dance of the Dragons. 

More often than not Asoiaf's characters are just from a soap opera.

BTW, how do aristocrats act that makes it so different than this lot?

 

It's good but what it really has going for it is that most of the fantasy series so far have been subpar,  so it shines even more by comparison.

If they could just not just have random violence, then it'd be really good.

Sadly I think it all goes downhill from here, there's little to scratch from the Dance but endless gore.

 

 

 

 

Even if the ending is executed perfectly, I think that it’ll be controversial because let’s be real, even book fans are torn over whether the Dance is a good story or not. Some like the story and think it’s poignant and tragic, others find it boring and nihilistic. I generally like it, but I think the story could have been better.

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My biggest issue with the show is that after 5 episodes, it has gone RIDICULOUSLY quickly and skipped over massively interesting things and characters.

Since we'll probably lose Laenor and Laena next episode or the episode afterward, it's even worse.

They could have done three seasons about the build up to the Dance.

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12 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

My biggest issue with the show is that after 5 episodes, it has gone RIDICULOUSLY quickly and skipped over massively interesting things and characters.

Since we'll probably lose Laenor and Laena next episode or the episode afterward, it's even worse.

I've seen many viewers who are confused as to how Laena went from looking much younger than Rhaenyra to looking much older than her in the span of just a few episodes.

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10 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, maybe we’ll see some after the season is over, but there has been a notable lack of analyses so far (unlike LOTR or every Marvel or Star Wars show, which are broken down in minute detail). It makes you wonder what everyone else is seeing that you’re not.

Even if the ending is executed perfectly, I think that it’ll be controversial because let’s be real, even book fans are torn over whether the Dance is a good story or not. Some like the story and think it’s poignant and tragic, others find it boring and nihilistic. I generally like it, but I think the story could have been better.

One of the most interesting topics is how quicly have people gotten over the black Velaryons? It is hardly a discussion i see anymore, although i don't really look that far anyway.

I think that the grifters of the hate market needs to save one show while bashing the others, HotD is simply the one saved from the burning for grifters to justify themseves when they are obviously called out. 

 

About the Dance, I for one believe it's a story that highlights one of Martin's worst flaws, being edgy and nihilistic just for the sake of it. That and the fact that the Velaryons are terribly underused.  I think it is Martin's worst war by far and it pisses me off the limelight that gets. Robert's rebellion, War of the 5 Kings, the Blackfyre Rebellion, hell even the Young Dragon's betrayal in Dorne.

Tbf, this is also a me problem,  I have always found the post dragons Targaryen Kings far more fascinating than the Dragon kings, no wonder the Dance bores me so much.

 

 

17 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

They could have done three seasons about the build up to the Dance.

This is one of the things i think that readers believe a no brainer but casual audience woud jump the ship quickly.

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