[Poll] How would you rate episode 105?

[Ran]

What'd you think?

[IFR]

A 7 from me. The show has bought enough good will that I'm more willing to overlook the ridiculous parts. But it's becoming more noticeable. First Daemon as an action hero on the Stepstones, and now all the dramatics during the wedding. Moments like these weigh down an otherwise really good series.

[Ser Not Appearing]

Holy crap, the Allicent heel turn makes absolutely no sense as they did it on screen. That's ... disappointing.

... and then they just decide not to address fallout or explain Criston Cole murdering Leanor's boyfriend? Baffling, to be honest.

There's a lot of good mixed in but I increasingly don't think they do the greatest job of actually telling a story in a satisfying way. It fails in the details on a consistent basis ... but so does almost every show in one way or another. Really goes to show how great the book-driven GOT seasons were.

I think it deserves a 7 but I'm frustrated enough that I'd like to give it a 5.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Ser Not Appearing

[lakin1013]

2 minutes ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

Holy crap, the Allicent heel turn makes absolutely no sense as they did it on screen. That's ... disappointing.

I did not understand that at all.  Her father got bad information, she knows that now.  Her friend did NOT lie to her, as RH did not have sex with Daemon.  Rh omitted the actual partner in the deed but she didn't lie.  But Alycent seemed particularly pissed about the moon tea.  Why?  Why is Alycent so pissed off?

[Ser Not Appearing]

7 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

I did not understand that at all.  Her father got bad information, she knows that now.  Her friend did NOT lie to her, as RH did not have sex with Daemon.  Rh omitted the actual partner in the deed but she didn't lie.  But Alycent seemed particularly pissed about the moon tea.  Why?  Why is Alycent so pissed off?

Exactly. Just poorly done. Criston Cole's admission should have mollified her somewhat. Instead they decide to have it crystallize her anger. It's really goofy.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Ser Not Appearing

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

That was really bad. Idiot writing. ... I have no confidence they can return from this level of stupidity.
Every single episode they have men be ridiculously violent for no reason whatsoever. More high lords dead right and left, there are no rules, no sins, no hanging, no king's justice. This is not Westeros, it's a bad joke.

What happened with the horse??? Is Daemon a horse whisperer now? They ruined the Daemon ambiguity and made him a plain evil murderer. In the books he's not even there.

Alicent turned for what reason? Because, reasons. So badly done.

How will they ever justify Cole not being executed or banished after ruining the royal wedding and killing the future king consort best friend for no reason.

Why would he go to the weirwood tree to comit seppuku, he doesnt believe the old gods... They really, really, really, love to reuse that weirwood tree even if it makes absolutely no sense.

And HOW, HOW, do they allow The Queen to approach a MURDERER all alone??? Why is Cole not in chains and is allowed to wander free in the castle? And the Queen would be at the wedding cerimony not matter how small it is. wtf

This is season 8 levels of stupid writing...

Edited September 19, 2022 by Ser Yorick Ampersand

[dsjj251]

38 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

I did not understand that at all.  Her father got bad information, she knows that now.  Her friend did NOT lie to her, as RH did not have sex with Daemon.  Rh omitted the actual partner in the deed but she didn't lie.  But Alycent seemed particularly pissed about the moon tea.  Why?  Why is Alycent so pissed off?

 

37 minutes ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

Exactly. Just poorly done. Criston Cole's admission should have mollified her somewhat. Instead they decide to have it crystallize her anger. It's really goofy.

 

Alicent doesnt care who Rhaenyra slept with, its the very fact that she did indeed sleep with someone.  Yall are missing the forest for the trees.

[dsjj251]

33 minutes ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

 

Why would he go to the weirwood tree to comit seppuku, he doesnt believe the old gods... They really, really, really, love to reuse that weirwood tree even if it makes absolutely no sense.

........................ Why is Cole not in chains and is allowed to wander free in the castle? And the Queen would be at the wedding cerimony not matter how small it is. wtf

 

1. there are First Men Dornish, so there should indeed be some worship of the old Gods.

2. She is at the wedding, she is next to Viserys when he collapses. 

[Ran]

1 hour ago, dsjj251 said:

 

 

Alicent doesnt care who Rhaenyra slept with, its the very fact that she did indeed sleep with someone.  Yall are missing the forest for the trees.

Yes. Rhaenyra deliberately misled her, there's no question of that. And with a knight of the Kingsguard no less, breaking his vows. Alicent already feels guilt about having her father lose his position because of the choice she made to support the princess, and now she sees that that support was based on a lie. And it is a lie to Alicent because of her concern was about the danger of the princess not being a maiden and the rumors and such, but Rhaenyra lawyered her way around it.

Moreover, Alicent went to Rhaenyra as a friend, promised to help her and may have been perfectly honest that she would have helped Rhaenyra even if she had told her the truth. But Rhaenyra did not confide in her, misled her, and then took advantage of her support to then force her father out.

You can see why this changes Alicent's feelings about Rhaenyra.

[BlackLightning]

Honestly, I don't know how to rate the episode yet. I really loved this episode but this episode had some serious problems. What happened in this episode should have happened over the course of two episodes.

41 minutes ago, Ran said:

Yes. Rhaenyra deliberately misled her, there's no question of that. And with a knight of the Kingsguard no less, breaking his vows. Alicent already feels guilt about having her father lose his position because of the choice she made to support the princess, and now she sees that that support was based on a lie. And it is a lie to Alicent because of her concern was about the danger of the princess not being a maiden and the rumors and such, but Rhaenyra lawyered her way around it.

Moreover, Alicent went to Rhaenyra as a friend, promised to help her and may have been perfectly honest that she would have helped Rhaenyra even if she had told her the truth. But Rhaenyra did not confide in her, misled her, and then took advantage of her support to then force her father out.

You can see why this changes Alicent's feelings about Rhaenyra.

True.

But I don't think that is the reason why Alicent is angry. I think the real reason Alicent is angry because she is jealous and envious of Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra gets to be a more modern woman while most women - Alicent included - have to toe the line. And Alicent, as the most powerful woman on the continent, should not have to toe the line.

It's the Sansa/Arya dichotomy...only there's no good parenting bonding them together and it's dialed up a couple notches.

 

If Rhaenyra had told the whole truth, I don't believe that Alicent would have helped her or kept her secret. Otto Hightower was already on the way out because he had been going too far; I don't really think Rhaenyra forced Otto out. I think Rhaenyra just gave Viserys another reason or two to put Otto out. The whole point of Otto going to Viserys with the information (his information was inaccurate, let's be honest) was so that Viserys would disinherit Rhaenyra in favor of his grandson Aegon. 

Alicent's reaction to Criston's confession tells us all that we need to know of how Alicent would react if Rhaenyra told her the truth.

[DireWolfSpirit]

I like the direction, looking forward to some Alicent v Rhaenyra Clash of Queens.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by DireWolfSpirit

[C.T. Phipps]

In a very real sense, "We Light the Way" is the end of Season One of House of the Dragon and in a more just world where HBO had more faith in the series then it would have been Episode 10 rather than Episode 5. The series has been rushing through the majority of the story about the Dance of the Dragons in Season 1 with numerous time skips as well as signs that another lengthy one is ahead. They seem to want to desperately get to the actual Targaryen Civil War and unwilling to give any time to rest to the plots going on. I think the show would have strongly benefited from letting them have an additional five episodes to soften the characters up.

I have somewhat mixed feelings on this episode as a result as it resulted in the jumping past of several more points in the story as well as signals the end of our current crop of actresses. Milly Alcock and Emily Carey did fantastic jobs as both Princess Rhaenyra and Queen Alicent. While neither of them can pass for mothers of twenty-year-olds, I think their absence from future episodes is part of the reason that I am so down on this episode. They did an amazing number of changes to the status quo but no room for following the consequences up.

The episode opens up with what I suspect will be one of the two major controversial scenes of the episode with the introduction of Lady Rhea Royce, Daemon Targaryen's wife, who makes a great first impression. Unfortunately, Lady Rhea Royce taunts Daemon one too many times and he either causes her horse to rear or takes advantage of it doing so to kill her. This is the darkest action Daemon has taken yet and I wonder if any of the fanboys or girls will change their minds about supporting him.

Rhaenyra accepts the marriage proposal of Laenor Velaryon and the two of them discuss their impending nuptials. The problem being that Laenor is gay as the day is long and Rhaenyra is aware of it. However, they're cousins and good friends so they decide to make the most of their marriage by agreeing to have an open relationship. This IMMEDIATELY backfires with the fact that Ser Criston Cole has fallen deeply in love with Rhaenyra. He's crippled with guilt over breaking his oath of celibacy and the idea of being Rhaenyra's lover while she's married to another man disgusts him.

Viserys Targaryen is on his seeming last legs both heath-wise and monarchy-wise, so he's doing his best to marry Rhaenyra off to a house that will support her claim. Lord Corys is kind of iffy about the whole thing, far more so than you would have imagined for a man being offered the chance to make his grandson or daughter ruling monarch. It's clear that not even Corys has much faith in Rhaenyra's ability to keep the throne.

Ser Otto, by contrast, is someone who holds the blame for his dismissal on everyone but himself. Particularly, he blames his daughter for siding with Rhaenyra and says that her children would be murdered by the Princess if she were to ever ascend the throne. It implies that Otto would have the same sort of view to any children of Rhaernya and shows the man to be truly contemptible. Alicent also lets the poison sink into her soul due to both her father's influence and Ser Criston Cole confessing, unprompted, that Rhaenyra slept with him.

This leads to the mother of all awkward feasts as everyone has started plotting against one another openly for what amounts to no reason whatsoever. The friendship of Alicent and Rhaenyra is severed because the former is jealous of the latter's freedom as well as a willing pawn in her father's games. The latter is not really aware how the hurricane of her actions has affected the people around her and enjoys stirring the pot more, including teasing her uncle who wants to wed her.

I have some issues with the wedding itself as it seemed like murdering a man in the middle of one would have more consequences than it does. Then again, Ser Criston Cole is a Kingsguard so I'm sure the Kingsguard union will come to his defense. He might end up on Administrative Leave for a month with pay thanks to Alicent's involvement. I'm sure Laenor's lover will be found with a sword in hand and some milk of the poppy sprinkled over him. AKAB.
Oh well, we'll see how the next massive time skip of about fifteen years or so goes.

7/10

[The hairy bear]

It's a five for me. Not a fan of this one.

Some very nice bits here and there, but also very big misses.

[EggBlue]

I'm not gonna lie , I enjoyed a lot of things in this episode . the wedding had the ability to be really entertaining with that music alone . and Rhaenys/Corlys conversation was a highlight for me . BUT there are some major issues with this episode that I cannot overlook , including two idiotic murders and the character of Daemon Targaryen. so an episode that could be 7 or even 8 if improved got a 5 from me . I am frustrated  .

[Howland Reed]

I gave this a 5.  This was the worst episode so far. 

-  Cole's whole situation prior to beating someone to death while everyone watches was not built up enough seemed like it came out of no where.

- Is it Driftmart?  The Seasnake's castle.  There were no people there whatsoever.  It was jarring.  Like going to visit a giant castle with just 5 people living in it, no guards or anything.  Weird.

- Joffrey going up to Cole and basically confiding in him w/o having any real information that he is the princesses "lover."

- Cole Seemingly caving someones face in while everyone just watches.  What are the other kings guard doing?  Also, did they really need to cave his face in like that, I mean I get they want this to be a spectacle but that just seems childish and truth be told not even real, i'm pretty sure he didn't have gauntlets on, that wound looked like his face was dug out with a shovel, just too much compensation.

- The daemon horse scene also just felt a bit too much stars aligning in such a small period of time.  This one I guess wasn't so bad but also I think was just poorly done.  He just shows up on a path while she happens to be alone on in the middle of no where while being able to startle her horse like that.  Definitely on the lower end of this list but still not a big fan.

 

Hopefully they return to form for me, I really enjoyed the previous episode, this one was rough for sure.

[RhaenysBee]

7 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

Alicent doesnt care who Rhaenyra slept with, its the very fact that she did indeed sleep with someone.  Yall are missing the forest for the trees.

I haven’t watched the new episode yet, but even the subtext of the previous one hinted that Alicent is jealous. She never got to choose a lover (whoever that may be) and she resents that Rhaenyra might have/did experience what she never has and probably never will, unless she compromises her values and moral duty. She resents that she did the right thing and her duty while Rhaenyra didn’t and she’s still the one to “lose” in the grand scheme of things. 

[Ser Not Appearing]

8 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

Alicent doesnt care who Rhaenyra slept with, its the very fact that she did indeed sleep with someone.  Yall are missing the forest for the trees.

If that's the entirety of her complaint in an age of decadence, it's exceedingly flimsy and, again, was not presented well.

[Ser Graymax]

6.5/10 and a struggle to get there.

This episode just heightened my resolve about never attending a wedding again.  The feasting, dancing, fist fights and the occasional murder, Meh, who needs it?   I guess they had refined the proceedings by the Red Wedding.

Lady Rhea, an accomplished hunter, horsewoman and tomboy for lack of a better word just falls off her horse and then just lies there whimpering because of a broken arm?  Painful I know but not immobilizing.  Running her mouth was the real cause of her death.  Daemon may have startled the horse OR NOT but he was leaving before her taunting.  Her death would have been OK and maybe better offscreen and " one sentence".

Ser Coles blurted out confession (never volunteer information)later attempt at seppuku only serve to  enslave him to the Queen, the confession though is a turning point.

Anyone named Joeffery or like sounding name are now like the red shirts in ST.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Ser Graymax

[Caligula_K3]

Count me in among those who have no problems at all with Alicent's motivations. She feels she's been lied to and manipulated by her bff whom she tried to help, after that friend spent about three years ignoring her (well, the show did muck up that part a bit with the time gap). She realizes now that her father is probably right and that her bff can't be trusted. And beyond that, there's her resentment of her marriage with Viserys and Rhaenyra's comparative freedom. I have no problem understanding why she's now on the warpath.

Cristen Cole's motivations... Well, that's another question.

Anyway, I give this one a 6.5. I can't remember which thread it was in, but I agree with the poster who said that if they were going to do all this pre-dance stuff, it needed to be a full season, not five episodes. That would have given them space to better develop the characters and connect the Downton Abbey season 1 stuff with the seemingly random acts of violence.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Caligula_K3

[Ran]

9 minutes ago, Ser Graymax said:

just lies there whimpering because of a broken arm?

She was paralyzed from the neck down, hence no reaction when he stepped on her arm, and not a jot of movement from her.