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[SPOILERS] Rings of Power: Ah, Mithril, that's the good stuff!


Corvinus85

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55 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Adar's goal is to create a homeland for his orcs- a place of desolation without sunlight

So the Orcs will starve to death

The orcs as potrayed in the show should not have been able to do this feat of engineering. They do not have the manpower or the technology to dig tunnels deep enough and over a hundred miles long (distance between the village/tower and Mount Doom).

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My issue is not with water being used to turn on Orodruin.

My issue is with there being a mechanical on-switch for a volcano, supposedly built by a demigod, that is also a magic sword, that was lying around for a thousand years. Why would Sauron build a mechanical trigger to cause a volcanic eruption? What's the point of doing this so any non-Ainu who manages to get the key can set off all this power?

It is like no one gave this plot idea any thought beyond, "it'd be cool to have a sword set off Orodruin!"

And if Halbrand does end up being Sauron, and even openly reveals it to Galadriel, I hope they realize that they've basically written a story that makes every single major good character a moron. This means that, despite knowing that Sauron is alive and capable of shape-shifting and seeming good so that not even Galadriel could detect his evil, Celebrimbor is going to welcome a random dude promising gifts and take his advice. Pharazon, already duped by Sauron, is now going to bring him back to Numenor? Galadriel and Gil Galad, presumably wise enough to not fall for this a second time, will still passively watch as a suspicious guy who could well be Sauron takes over their wealthiest and most technologically advanced city without doing anything about it.

It is one thing for Gil Galad and Galadriel to not welcome Annatar when they only have misgivings and no knowledge of Sauron or his capabilities. It's absurd for them to not straight up declare war on Erigion to root out Annatar, if it turns out Halbrand is Sauron. 

So, just like with WoT, the plotting gets really bad by the end of the first season, making it hard to see how any resemblance to the text can be preserved without a lot of characters having to be utterly stupid. 

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11 minutes ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

So the Orcs will starve to death

The orcs as potrayed in the show should not have been able to do this feat of engineering. They do not have the manpower or the technology to dig tunnels deep enough and over a hundred miles long (distance between the village/tower and Mount Doom).

Wait, there's no way this was all done by Adar's orcs. Why would a thousand year old statue have a sword that would be the trigger they need to set this off, then? If they built it, they'd be able to trigger it themselves, no, rather than rely on something they don't even know for sure exists anymore?

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2 hours ago, slant said:

Oh, the orcs built the tower when Morgoth was in power, the elves just use it now to make sure the men do not go back to the dark ways of their ancestors. The shrine and the key were all in the tower because of that reason. It is an orc tower, not an elf tower. 

Yes, likely that. I would say the elves built the watchtower itself, since there's is no way the top of that tower is orc architecture. And Arondir knew how to bring it down in a precise way.

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2 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

As for the volcano... damn, some of you will suck the fun out of everything. That was a great sequence. Everyone I know in real life who watches this show (including some natural scientists!) thought that was an incredible ending and twist. When you demand that your fantasy show, which is based on a book/movie trilogy that features a volcano that acts like no real volcano ever has, prioritize volcano realism... maybe you're just looking for reasons to dislike the show.

The show cannot win because people complain that not enough time is spent with one storyline to fully develop it and things just jump around too much...so we get one episode all about one storyline and what happens? That's right, people complain that we didn't see certain other characters in that episode.

How did the Numenoreans know where to go (a complaint I have seen multiple times)? They had Halbrand with them - I think that is logical enough. The previous episode had him literally point it out on a map. I think he was pointing at the tower but it is hardly a stretch that they can follow the trail of the orcs to a nearby village.

I've seen people complain today that having a cavalry charge in the show is unoriginal or copying the Peter Jackson films. People were totally cool with Gandalf et al turning up and riding down an massively steep incline in TTT though, that was totally believable and realistic.

At this point it is just so boringly predictable that people who have decided in advance to hate the show seem to find plenty of spare time not only to tune in on time every week but to repeatedly (multiple times per week) argue about it on the internet. It is ridiculous. :rofl:

 

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35 minutes ago, Isis said:

At this point it is just so boringly predictable that people who have decided in advance to hate the show seem to find plenty of spare time not only to tune in on time every week but to repeatedly (multiple times per week) argue about it on the internet. It is ridiculous. :rofl:

Why is it always "the people who don't like this show have decided in advance to not like it" and never "the people who like this show have decided in advance to like it" :rofl:

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1 hour ago, Isis said:

The show cannot win because people complain that not enough time is spent with one storyline to fully develop it and things just jump around too much...so we get one episode all about one storyline and what happens? That's right, people complain that we didn't see certain other characters in that episode.

That's a highly selective reading of the complaints with this episode. 

1 hour ago, Isis said:

At this point it is just so boringly predictable that people who have decided in advance to hate the show seem to find plenty of spare time not only to tune in on time every week but to repeatedly (multiple times per week) argue about it on the internet. It is ridiculous. :rofl:

 

And what about those of us who started the show with good will, even enjoyed some parts of it, but are beginning to find the plotting and characterization utterly absurd?

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Wow! Last nights episode just got really interesting!

Meteor Man is a balrog?  Schmalrog!

Arondir mentions that one of the valar is responsible for the care of all living things.  So I think Meteor Man was sent as a response to Sauron's return and the poisoning of the land as Gil-galad sees with the veins of the leaf turning black.  He is not the cause of it methinks.

He doesn't know who he is just yet or what his powers are or how to control them.  But he has power over all the elements:  earth (levitates rocks); water (turns it to ice); fire (makes it burn brighter); air (knocks down a pack of wargs).  Plus he can bend trees..

He is a creation of the "blessed fire" from the Eye of Illuvatar.  The meteor crater looks something like Sauron's eye but Sauron's fiery eye is a perversion of the blessed fire of creation.  The fire in the crater does not harm a living thing and so Nori is not burned.  https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Valar

It would be very appropriate if the Valar responsible for the care of growing things teams up withe progenitors of the Hobbits, since they have a great care for growing things.

So I wonder if Meteor Man will be responsible for transitioning the Harfoots from a nomadic lifestyle to a pastoral lifestyle - so nobody is left behind.

And I wonder if he will be responsible for the destruction of Numenor since we don't know the extent of his powers just yet.

So I don't know who Slim Shady refers to:  Lord/King Halbrand aka Sauron?

 

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2 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Wait, there's no way this was all done by Adar's orcs. Why would a thousand year old statue have a sword that would be the trigger they need to set this off, then? If they built it, they'd be able to trigger it themselves, no, rather than rely on something they don't even know for sure exists anymore?

The whole thing makes absolutely no sense, unless we assume that during the Wars in Beleriand Sauron occasionally buggered of to future-Mordor and set up an elaborate mechanism to kickstart a volcano because reasons. Then after Morgoth's defeat he does not decide to go to Mordor, but goes North instead and coincidentally Morgoth's human allies, who also somehow got the sword-key, decide to move to Mordor.

Adar decides to use Sauron's volcano device for himself to create a desolate wasteland as a home for the orcs and spends the next years digging tunnels to finish Sauron's project. He is incredibly lucky that the sword-key ends up in a village not far from his base of operations and that the elves do not find him. He does that even though he could have set himself up elswhere, like say underground.

I am sure that this will be revealed as having been part of Sauron's plan all along.

1 hour ago, Isis said:

he show cannot win because people complain that not enough time is spent with one storyline to fully develop it and things just jump around too much...so we get one episode all about one storyline and what happens?

The show cannot win because it is not well written.

1 hour ago, Isis said:

How did the Numenoreans know where to go (a complaint I have seen multiple times)? They had Halbrand with them - I think that is logical enough. The previous episode had him literally point it out on a map. I think he was pointing at the tower but it is hardly a stretch that they can follow the trail of the orcs to a nearby village.

Halbrand guessed and the only reason the Numenoreans even decided was because of some centuries old piece of parchment that somehow became relevant right when it was convenient.

1 hour ago, Isis said:

've seen people complain today that having a cavalry charge in the show is unoriginal or copying the Peter Jackson films. People were totally cool with Gandalf et al turning up and riding down an massively steep incline in TTT though, that was totally believable and realistic.

You are really being disingenious here. The complaint about this specific part of the show, i.e. the cavalry charge, is that it lacks originality not that it is "realistic". What is definitely not realistic and an outright plothole is that the Numenoreans were able to arrive in one day when they explicitely said that it would take them two. Nevermind that mustering the army and sailing to Middle-earth should have taken them even more time, but I guess they managed that within hours.

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Despite all the idiotic moments it was still a much better episode than the ones before IMO, at least some major events happened for a change, some of them reasonably entertaining to watch.

Too bad we know Galadriel will survive this somehow, the show would be a lot more enjoyable without her IMO.

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3 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

As for the volcano... damn, some of you will suck the fun out of everything. That was a great sequence. Everyone I know in real life who watches this show (including some natural scientists!) thought that was an incredible ending and twist. When you demand that your fantasy show, which is based on a book/movie trilogy that features a volcano that acts like no real volcano ever has, prioritize volcano realism... maybe you're just looking for reasons to dislike the show.

Not to mention that there is a basic geological principle that a flow of water will cause volcanic eruptions. Is what happens in this episode still "realistic?" No, probably not, just like Sauron building a central chamber inside a volcano isn't realistic, and it's not realistic for people to enter it and  have conversations inside it while the volcano is active. But who cares?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/rings-of-power-mt-doom-volcano-water-real-1235230089/amp/

I appreciate knowing this. I genuinely asked if this was possible and tried reasoning it on my own. What I want from a fantasy show is internal consistency. I hate when people say "it's fantasy, so it's fine".

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3 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Wow! Last nights episode just got really interesting!

Meteor Man is a balrog?  Schmalrog!

Arondir mentions that one of the valar is responsible for the care of all living things.  So I think Meteor Man was sent as a response to Sauron's return and the poisoning of the land as Gil-galad sees with the veins of the leaf turning black.  He is not the cause of it methinks.

He doesn't know who he is just yet or what his powers are or how to control them.  But he has power over all the elements:  earth (levitates rocks); water (turns it to ice); fire (makes it burn brighter); air (knocks down a pack of wargs).  Plus he can bend trees..

He is a creation of the "blessed fire" from the Eye of Illuvatar.  The meteor crater looks something like Sauron's eye but Sauron's fiery eye is a perversion of the blessed fire of creation.  The fire in the crater does not harm a living thing and so Nori is not burned.  https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Valar

It would be very appropriate if the Valar responsible for the care of growing things teams up withe progenitors of the Hobbits, since they have a great care for growing things.

So I wonder if Meteor Man will be responsible for transitioning the Harfoots from a nomadic lifestyle to a pastoral lifestyle - so nobody is left behind.

And I wonder if he will be responsible for the destruction of Numenor since we don't know the extent of his powers just yet.

So I don't know who Slim Shady refers to:  Lord/King Halbrand aka Sauron?

 

Slim Shady refers to that guy in white who looks like Eminem. He hasn’t done much yet but he caused quite a buzz when he appeared in the trailers.

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I took a look at Elrond’s family tree and woof, does my head hurt. Is this how other people feel when they look at the Targaryen family tree?

So Elendil descends from Elrond’s brother, but it’s been so long that there’s no longer any elf in him? Is Elrond the only half-elf left?

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4 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Not to mention that there is a basic geological principle that a flow of water will cause volcanic eruptions. Is what happens in this episode still "realistic?" No, probably not, just like Sauron building a central chamber inside a volcano isn't realistic, and it's not realistic for people to enter it and  have conversations inside it while the volcano is active. But who cares?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/rings-of-power-mt-doom-volcano-water-real-1235230089/amp/

Quote

The professor did question our vaguely described scenario, wondering how anybody could dig a tunnel to a magma chamber when they tend to be at least two kilometers below the Earth’s surface. For spoiler-protection reasons we couldn’t explain to him that Orcs are super-industrious creatures known to be particularly skilled at extensive digging projects.  

"The professor did question our vaguely described scenario" makes it sound like the professor didn't even watch the show.

I've seen people say that a steam-powered explosion would work if the steam had nowhere to escape, except that the steam can just escape through the opening at the top of the volcano. Hence why volcanic eruptions are caused by magma moving deep below the surface. 

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21 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Slim Shady refers to that guy in white who looks like Eminem. He hasn’t done much yet but he caused quite a buzz when he appeared in the trailers.

Oh OK.  Well I think Halbrand is pretty shady.  Not to mention slippery.

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Water triggered volcanic eruption was fine, maybe the best part of the episode if this was science fiction, but that's ignoring the strange magic-sword key mechanism for all the previously mentioned reasons.  It's a magic sword used mechanically to do an engineering marvel?

It would have been better if Arondir tried to destroy the sword by throwing it into the volcano to destroy it, and that triggered it magically.  Then boom! regrets.  Meanwhile Adar has chase him up the mountain and then is standing by laughing because throwing it into the volcano is exactly what he wanted to do. 

Or better yet:  Adar does a blood sacrifice of Meteor Man, throwing him into the volcano to trigger it.  It's a fantasy show, we want fantasy mechanisms for what happens, with realistic motivations, not science mechanisms with nonsensical motivations.

 

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I don't think I've seen more pre- mid- and post-battle cliches strung together in one episode of TV. they hit every single one!

this show is such an offensive mixture of shallow, imbecilic JJ abrams-style mystery box storytelling plus elements, characters, and entire lines of dialog just wholly ripped off from the peter jackson films. Shame on everybody involved in this! I'm out!

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3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I took a look at Elrond’s family tree and woof, does my head hurt. Is this how other people feel when they look at the Targaryen family tree?

So Elendil descends from Elrond’s brother, but it’s been so long that there’s no longer any elf in him? Is Elrond the only half-elf left?

Elrond and Elros (and both their parents, who were also half-elven) were given a choice by the Valar about whether to be Elf or Man. Elros chose Man and became the first king of Numenor, Elrond chose Elf (as did both parents but they had already gone into the west)

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43 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

Elrond and Elros (and both their parents, who were also half-elven) were given a choice by the Valar about whether to be Elf or Man. Elros chose Man and became the first king of Numenor, Elrond chose Elf (as did both parents but they had already gone into the west)

Huh, you would think that would have come up by now. I guess Elrond hasn’t really been involved with Numenor yet, but that’s a pretty big elephant in the room.

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