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[SPOILERS] Rings of Power: Ah, Mithril, that's the good stuff!


Corvinus85
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44 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

You can't be serious. That would be downright insulting. These buffoons are adapting works of a writer who actually fought at the Somme in WWI, and they can't even act and pretend fighting without breaking down?

I would think that a writer who actually fought at the Somme would be very sympathetic to the idea that even acting out fight scenes can be traumatic.

As a person who watches a lot of fight scenes and also spends his weekends teaching people to handle a sword (in a safe but audience-friendly way), the fight scenes in this series are mostly fine. Lots of folks think they know about this stuff. They aren't all as correct as they imagine.

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7 minutes ago, mormont said:

I would think that a writer who actually fought at the Somme would be very sympathetic to the idea that even acting out fight scenes can be traumatic.

As a person who watches a lot of fight scenes and also spends his weekends teaching people to handle a sword (in a safe but audience-friendly way), the fight scenes in this series are mostly fine. Lots of folks think they know about this stuff. They aren't all as correct as they imagine.

And that specific scene? You think that is ‘mostly fine’?

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48 minutes ago, mormont said:

I would think that a writer who actually fought at the Somme would be very sympathetic to the idea that even acting out fight scenes can be traumatic.

As a person who watches a lot of fight scenes and also spends his weekends teaching people to handle a sword (in a safe but audience-friendly way), the fight scenes in this series are mostly fine. Lots of folks think they know about this stuff. They aren't all as correct as they imagine.

That's interesting, the idea a combat veteran would equate pretend fighting with the real thing and be sympathetic to the idea that acting out a sword fight would be traumatic.  

The show has many more serious issues than bad fight choreography, but I did get a serious zena vibe from G's last round of fights.

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

That's interesting, the idea a combat veteran would equate pretend fighting with the real thing and be sympathetic to the idea that acting out a sword fight would be traumatic.  I would think the opposite, someone who has been exposed to war would find it laughable that an actor would be traumatized by faking it.

The show has many more serious issues than bad fight choreography, but I did get a serious zena vibe from G's last round of fights.

 

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3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I did groan when they started fighting over an open flame lantern in a ship covered in flammable liquid. It’s one of those stupid movie moments that of course has to happen 

To be fair to the writers, both Isildur and Pharazon's son have explicitly been written as being stupid people.

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8 hours ago, DMC said:

I didn't know there were leaks - and still don't care about reading them - but gotta say I've always tended to think Halbrand as Sauron is a red herring.  It's just so obvious.  Frankly, that was the only thing I liked about episode 5 - it made me think NONE of the characters we've met are Sauron.  Which..actually would be pretty cool.

If Amazon is smart, they’ll take advantage of spoiler culture and plant fake ones.

 

So, who is not-Eminem supposed to be?

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11 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

It really does seem like the story would work a hell of a lot better if the Numenor story didn't feature the folks who were around for the Fall of Numenor. Even just having two generations between the current story and the Fall would have made this story work a lot better. 

Yes, some kind of time jump should have been there. And it would have been easily feasible. There are two distinct eras there - Eregion and the forging of the Rings ending with Sauron's shattering defeat at the hands of the Númenóreans and the Akallabêth events, basically.

14 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, why would Sauron pose as a long-lost king? That just draws attention to him.

Indeed. That Galadriel wants to drag his ass back to Middle-earth is because of that weird symbol there. Not to mention that it is cheap as hell to have an Aragorn lookalike also play essentially the movie Aragorn role of 'reluctant king'. And how the hell would 'Sauron' have wanted to ingratiate himself with the Númenóreans, manipulating them. By murdering people? By getting thrown in jail? By stealing guild signs because he has no clue how human society works.

That guy cannot possibly play the Annatar role if you think about it - which may actually mean they cut the entire Annatar plot and have the Aragorn lookalike transform himself into the evil Dark Lord Sauron upon his return to Middle-earth, possibly in connection with 'evil blade handle thing' returned back to him.

They could just fly with Sauron learning about the project of the Elven-smiths without him actually helping with it, forging the One Ring while the Elves do their thing.

If we get an Annatar character Sauron would have to transform himself into this new character - which may then also be played by a new actor ... because that Aragorn lookalike could never possibly seduce the Elves. Especially not with the baggage of playing the role of some mortal king being descended from Morgoth worshippers.

They could possibly fly with Sauron inventing the Annatar character when he first hears about/encounters Star Guy - who would then either be Gandalf or one of the blue wizards. In fact, he could als kill and/or impersonate that guy - or just fly with a scenario where he would be a second messenger of the Valar. Star Guy would likely not remember if this were true or not.

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6 hours ago, Denvek said:

To be fair to the writers, both Isildur and Pharazon's son have explicitly been written as being stupid people.

Yes, but Isildur's motive there is pretty clearly to get the lantern away from Pharazon's son, who is intending to set light to the oil. I understand why that's risky, but not why it's stupid. What else was he to do: leave the arsonist holding the flame?

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3 minutes ago, mormont said:

Yes, but Isildur's motive there is pretty clearly to get the lantern away from Pharazon's son, who is intending to set light to the oil. I understand why that's risky, but not why it's stupid. What else was he to do: leave the arsonist holding the flame?

Thinking about that scene:

Does it even make sense in context. Pharazôn told his son why he supports the Middle-earth mission. Didn't he convince the boy or did Pharazôn set up his son to burn the ship(s)?

In any case, it seems to be a waste of time because the shady guys seemed to support the Middle-earth mission for their own reasons.

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8 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Per Tolkien's writings, the Elves originated in Middle-earth, then a bunch of them moved to Valinor, but not all. So there are many Elves who never saw the light of the Trees of Valinor. A portion of those Elves from Valinor returned to Middle-earth to fight Morgoth because not only did he destroy the Trees, he stole the Jewels, the Silmarils, which contained the light of the Trees. These Elves are the Noldor. Many died in the wars against Morgoth. So by the Second Age, the vast majority of Elves living in Middle-earth are those who never saw the light of the Trees. So why is the entire Elven race in peril all of a sudden?

It makes no sense - which is why I said that this was a cheap ripoff of generic Tolkien-inspired fantasy stuff like World of Warcraft. The Elves will slowly decline and diminish as the millennia pass as their minds consume their bodies, turning them into bodiless spirits.

The Elven-smiths want to halt that process with the Rings of Power - and that actually does work as both Rivendell and Lórien later prove - but this is not some 'We are going to die in a couple of days' nonsense but rather a very slow decline which is going to ensure that the world is going to inherited by Men. That's what certain Elves fight against.

The show turns that all into cheap imminent threats.

By the way - completely unrelated:

I really enjoy the actress playing Miriel. She does have a quiet strength and is manifestly better suited for her role as Pharazôn ... who really don't see as a king in all his might and splendor who ends to whom Sauron himself will bend the knee (if only to corrupt him). One wonders whether Miriel will be the one who eventually drags Sauron's sorry ass back to Númenor and he ends up corrupting Chancellor Pharazôn, encouraging to stage a coup and usurp the throne.

But that would really depend on how the Middle-earth mission works. Technically Sauron should only go to Númenor after he has the One Ring and created the Nazgûl ... although some of the latter might be created out of Númenórean Sauron fanboys, one imagines.

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Is it just me or does it take too long for anything to happen in this show? It's sort of become a show where I put on in the background, when I'm doing something for work and just randomly look up at my tv, whenever I feel like something important is happening.

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14 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

You can't be serious. That would be downright insulting. These buffoons are adapting works of a writer who actually fought at the Somme in WWI, and they can't even act and pretend fighting without breaking down?

Some context:

Morfydd Clark generally plays vulnerable characters. Adapting from that to Galadriel meant that her previous instincts were no longer appropriate to the character. Hence she had to do some work to ensure that she wouldn't flinch in fight scenes.

That's really it.

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5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Thinking about that scene:

Does it even make sense in context. Pharazôn told his son why he supports the Middle-earth mission. Didn't he convince the boy or did Pharazôn set up his son to burn the ship(s)?

In any case, it seems to be a waste of time because the shady guys seemed to support the Middle-earth mission for their own reasons.

Makes perfect sense to me. Kemen's brain is going "I don't care what Dad thinks. If I pull this off, I am so getting laid tonight."

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2 hours ago, sifth said:

Is it just me or does it take too long for anything to happen in this show? It's sort of become a show where I put on in the background, when I'm doing something for work and just randomly look up at my tv, whenever I feel like something important is happening.

A mixture of untight writing and mystery box storytelling will leave you with that sort of feeling. 

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7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Thinking about that scene:

Does it even make sense in context. Pharazôn told his son why he supports the Middle-earth mission. Didn't he convince the boy or did Pharazôn set up his son to burn the ship(s)?

In any case, it seems to be a waste of time because the shady guys seemed to support the Middle-earth mission for their own reasons.

I’ll confess to being wrong about the Mithril, turns out they were going somewhere there (even if no one seems to like it). But I’m once again trying to pick apart the writing in the build up to this Numenor stuff; so, they want this guy to burn the ships. But why would he? Well, I guess we’ll need a female to motivate him. Maybe Isildur’s sister can ask him. But why would she go to him? I know, we’ll show a couple of scenes of him flirting in the previous episode. I mean who looks at all that on a storyboard and says ‘yep, nailed it’. It all feels so clumsy; we don’t really know him, his Dad gives him a reason not too, it doesn’t really change anything (5 ships seems just as irrelevant as 3 when you’re off to a giant continent to deal with a Dark Lord).

Maybe I’m wrong again and this will all go somewhere. But it feels like what ever story on Numenor this leads to, they could’ve just introduced it once the ships had left and shaved 10 minutes off each episode.

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19 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I’ll confess to being wrong about the Mithril, turns out they were going somewhere there (even if no one seems to like it). But I’m once again trying to pick apart the writing in the build up to this Numenor stuff; so, they want this guy to burn the ships. But why would he? Well, I guess we’ll need a female to motivate him. Maybe Isildur’s sister can ask him. But why would she go to him? I know, we’ll show a couple of scenes of him flirting in the previous episode. I mean who looks at all that on a storyboard and says ‘yep, nailed it’. It all feels so clumsy; we don’t really know him, his Dad gives him a reason not too, it doesn’t really change anything (5 ships seems just as irrelevant as 3 when you’re off to a giant continent to deal with a Dark Lord).

Maybe I’m wrong again and this will all go somewhere. But it feels like what ever story on Numenor this leads to, they could’ve just introduced it once the ships had left and shaved 10 minutes off each episode.

Earien: "I think War for the Elves is stupid. Worse, my brother seems to be into it. I know... I'll ask Kemen to chat with his Dad."

Kemen: "This is important to her... OK."

Pharazon: "Gives reasons this War might be useful."

Kemen: "OK. I can't go back with bad news. Maybe if I sabotage the operation. Yeah, that will definitely please her.*

 

It's not deep writing, but it works. There is much worse in this episode than that.

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4 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

It's not deep writing, but it works. There is much worse in this episode than that.

It really doesn't. It would barely work on CW.

I agree there is even worse writing than that.

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22 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

So how many Elves are in middle Earth? They have a back up plan right, like enough boats to take every last one to Valenor in time? Surely?

All will be revealed when we see Gil-Galad's backup plan of a grand total of two ships that will carry the entirety of the Eldar to Valinor. 

Those who cannot fit into the ships will, of course, take a pleasant swim across the Sundering Seas.

The Kemen-Earien storyline is the worst, for me. They aren't even characters, at this point, and it is bizarre to drive any kind of plot without giving some semblance of motive. Why is Elendil's daughter against the war, and yet never spoke to her father about her fears, but did speak to some random guy she met when she started her recent studies? The whole thing is shoddy crap. 

The mithril story isn't far behind. 

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