[SPOILERS] Rings of Power: Ah, Mithril, that's the good stuff!

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

This was dumb. Really really fucking dumb. On a level of last season GoT dumb. The action scenes are not as dumb as late-stage Jackson, but boy does this entire shitfest rely on coincidences, dumbassery and time travel. The fact that we do not spend nearly as much time as usual with the unlikeable characters is the only good thing about this.

Spoiler

- Why is Adar using elvish terms when adressing the orcs when there are English/Westron names for them? Is it because this shitshow is desperately trying to sound Tolkienian even if it does not make sense?

- Yeah the orcs are not sympathetic, pitiful mabye, but considering that they specifically to Mordor when they could have gone somewhere else and that they have and are still trying to slaughter innocents makes them the aggressor here.  Making them snarling vampires also does not help

- So the Southlanders left the defendible fortress in favor of their ransacked village. Did Adar have no scouts posted who could have informed him?

- Not only do the orcs not shoot the exposed Arondir, the Southlanders also managed to rig up a very efficient trap that is conveniently able to take a substantial portion of the orcs. They also managed to come up with this elaborate plan and evacuate in the few ours it must have taken the orcs to arrive at the ruin. Impressive and by impressive I mean utterly dumb.

- These boats do not look like they could carry over a hundred men and horses each. Actually I would be suprised if they could carry the number of people that we see.

- Also the boats are still at sea. By all rights it should take them days to arrive at the besieged village and they should only be able to bury what is left of the dead.

- Isildur continues to be a spoiled brat. Galabirelle somehow has gained military rank among the Numenoreans.

- I have to congratulate the showrunners though on including a little commedy here as Galabirelle talks about humility

.
- Was the Sea also right when it killed Isildur's mother?

- So we finally have confirmation that the orcs have two days the kill the Southlanders. Lets ignore for a moment that this "fleet" had only just set sail when the orcs were already marching on the fortress and put aside the question of whether or not they could have reached the mouths of the Anduin in just a few hours and whether the two days figure is accurate. Two days is more than enough

- Well it indeed seems like the will not even have one day. It is amazing that they managed to actually find all that useful stuff in the village to prepare. but they are pretty much toast.

- It is a shame really that while Arondir's actor manages to whole stoic elf thing much better than Orlando Bloom, he is stick in this awful love story.

- One would think that after what just happened, Adar would be on the lookout for traps, but I guess he wanted to be sporting. It is also awfully luck that only one orc checks out the suspoicious cart. And that none of the orcs have a rudimentary shields

- Well now we get the promo clip and as expected none of the orcs try to actually kill Arondir.

- The whole thing about some of  the orcs being disguised villagers was a nice twist, but now surely Adar is going to send in his main force and the Numenoreans are still more than a day away. All the orcs need to do now is march into the village and smoke them out

- So it is still night in the village. Why is the cavalry gallopping in full daylight? It has even been a day yet. They should still be on their ships. Bull fucking shit

- That sunlight burns the orcs is again ignored. Dumb chain thingy. Dumb stunt from Galadriel. Somehow Halbrand manages to cut of Adar despite not knowing where Adar was heading.

- "You remember me" Yep Halbrand is Sauron.

- "One can not satisfy thirst by drinking sea water" Well you can mark "dumb aphorism" on your bingo chart

- Adar being a prototype orc is confirmed by Galadriel and by him bleeding black earlier. A neat concept, but sadly not explored enough. We could have had that instead of Harfoot shenanigans. Adar's actor is being wasted on the role.

- Well Galadriel is threatening to torture prisoners. Good to see that she has not secretly been replaced during episode 5. She had me worried for a bit.

- Expositing about Sauron's motivations instead of showing them in action. The showrunners really think that they can get credit for this.

- Well Halbrand is just accepted because prophecy. It does not matter that nobody seems to recognize him or that he did not do anything significant. Hurray for puppet rulers. If the lack of a central ruler really was that much of a problem for the Southlanders, one wonders why they did not just elect one.

- The twist with Waldreg was obvious for the viewer, but not for the characters. I will allow the possibility that Waldreg would be able to sneak away. However that leaves the question of who build the volcano starter, why the key was hidden in a random barn and if Adar actually knew about what the key was going to do. I am not even going to ask how it even works

- WHY IS THERE NOBODY GUARDING THE IMPORTANT PRISONER

 

PS: I am fully on board with the Saulbrand/Galadriel ship.

[Farerb]

I'm totally here for Galadriel -Sauron ship. Not only this, but she's going to help him gain power, meaning that everything that will happen in the second and third age because of Sauron will be her fault - "This task was appointed to you Frodo Baggins. LOL bye".

And here I thought Gil-Galad was just a misogynist for treating Galadriel as if she's just a hysterical woman. Apparently he was right to send her to her room in Valinor without dinner.

[Werthead]

This spoiler thread from June is interesting, as is this one referencing spoilers from August and this chain of conversations. They got a lot of things dead right, and the things they got wrong could either be deleted scenes or they could be misinterpretations of scenes we did see.

Spoiler

They all agree that Halbrand is Sauron. They also seem to agree that the Stranger is not confirmed to be Gandalf but the possibility is there.

There is one interesting thing from those reports though:

Spoiler

Mentions of interactions between Halbrand and Celebrimbor, but unless Celebrimbor teleports to Mordor, that seems unlikely. Only Elrond has that power.

However they did accurately predict the conversation about the One and the Secret Fire, which would be a hell of a thing to luck onto.

Also, apparently a line from Elendil's audition script expanding on Anarion:

Quote

 

Anywho, in a leaked scene between Elendil and Galadriel, even granting code names / places / relationship switches, Elendil says "I have a son who runs fast and another who runs blind," and adds, "Here in the citadel many think the old traditions are myth, superstitions. But in the southern reaches they say there are still outlaw tribes living off the land, clinging to the old traditions, speaking the old tongue. Among our restless youths it’s become a fashionable escape to seek them out. This trend has already cost me a son, my first one that is" 

 

 

[Calibandar]

33 minutes ago, Werthead said:

This spoiler thread from June is interesting, as is this one referencing spoilers from August and this chain of conversations. They got a lot of things dead right, and the things they got wrong could either be deleted scenes or they could be misinterpretations of scenes we did see.

  Hide contents

They all agree that Halbrand is Sauron. They also seem to agree that the Stranger is not confirmed to be Gandalf but the possibility is there.

There is one interesting thing from those reports though:

  Hide contents

Mentions of interactions between Halbrand and Celebrimbor, but unless Celebrimbor teleports to Mordor, that seems unlikely. Only Elrond has that power.

However they did accurately predict the conversation about the One and the Secret Fire, which would be a hell of a thing to luck onto.

Also, apparently a line from Elendil's audition script expanding on Anarion:

 

Anarion is certainly weirdly absent this season. But apparently alive, I think we catch a brief glimpse of him in episode 2. Or they talk of him.

As for the rest, Halbrand as Sauron is still an option, would be one hell of a twist at this point though. There have definitely been hints, plenty in fact, but he also seems firmly established as this King of the Southlands dude who experienced big tragedy at the hands of the Orcs/Adar. Then again Adar says he split open Sauron and certainly doesnt recognize Halbrand, even teasing him about his traumatic past. I dont see how he really is Sauron to be honest. 

The other thing is that they are setting up some kind of romance between Halbrand and Galadriel, especially at the end of this episode. I thought that was quite well done too, not as unlikely as I would have thought at the start of the show.

Interactions between Celebrimbor and Halbrand could still come in the 2 episodes of course. The show clearly plays very fast and loose with distances haha.

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 hours ago, farerb said:

I can see them doing the "who's Sauron" crap every season.

 

That’s a good point. I could see Halbrand being a one-season character.

2 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Because Halbrand is not Sauron, he is this show's Aragorn. Sauron has just been awakened, it seems.

That was a big Orc, looks just like the Uruk Hai in Lord of the Rings films or Bolg in the Hobbit. Not a troll, which we have seen earlier when Galadriel fought one.

The whole " how on Earth does Sauron tie into the forging of the Rings" thing is completely unclear at this point.

This season seems to be all about " who is Sauron and his actual return" while season 2 will be into the forging of the Rings.

I was pretty much bored throughout the entire battle for the village, I think its all very bland. Much more interesting did it get when they started chasing Adar and the reveals that followed after ( note Adar has escaped btw). So he says that he split open Sauron, and also reveals a story that Sauron went to the North but that " a shadow of dark knowledge eluded him"  and while saying that, we see the face of a Balrog on screen. Curious what was meant by all of that.

On another note, we as the viewers are asked to take an enormous leap of faith here to believe that neither Galadriel, nor Halbrand, nor Arandir even looked at what was in the cloth package? No one is even curious to see whats in it? Only Theo when its too late? Galadriel interrogates but does not even take a look at the package she recovered from Adar, which Arondir told her must not stay in Adar's hands at all costs? 

I didnt like how the supposedly legendary Elendil was brought down by a few orcs and lay there defenseless to be slain until Halbrand saves him.

 

 

I hope you’re right, but the leaks have been right about everything else so far 

[The Bard of Banefort]

7 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

Anarion is certainly weirdly absent this season. But apparently alive, I think we catch a brief glimpse of him in episode 2. Or they talk of him.

As for the rest, Halbrand as Sauron is still an option, would be one hell of a twist at this point though. There have definitely been hints, plenty in fact, but he also seems firmly established as this King of the Southlands dude who experienced big tragedy at the hands of the Orcs/Adar. Then again Adar says he split open Sauron and certainly doesnt recognize Halbrand, even teasing him about his traumatic past. I dont see how he really is Sauron to be honest. 

The other thing is that they are setting up some kind of romance between Halbrand and Galadriel, especially at the end of this episode. I thought that was quite well done too, not as unlikely as I would have thought at the start of the show.

Interactions between Celebrimbor and Halbrand could still come in the 2 episodes of course. The show clearly plays very fast and loose with distances haha.

Yeah, call me a mush, but I like the budding romance between Galadriel and Halbrand too. I would like to see it continue.

[Werthead]

Solid interactive map for the show.

Halbrand as Sauron does make sense though. Adar talks about killing Sauron and then Halbrand is repeatedly saying to him, "Do you know who I am?" five minutes later (and of course if Sauron has reincarnated in a new, strange-looking body, Adar won't have a clue).

[Calibandar]

True. I have just read those Reddit posted spoilers you linked to and considering they were posted 3 months ago, they are shockingly accurate. I am glad to read later seasons will feature Ents because I have been waiting for them this season and nothing yet except that short glimpse when Meteor Man crashes.

Glad to hear The Stranger is indeed an Istari.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 minute ago, Werthead said:

Solid interactive map for the show.

Halbrand as Sauron does make sense though. Adar talks about killing Sauron and then Halbrand is repeatedly saying to him, "Do you know who I am?" five minutes later (and of course if Sauron has reincarnated in a new, strange-looking body, Adar won't have a clue).

He seemed surprised that Adar didn’t recognize him though.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Reading up on the Sauron theories, could some kind soul explain to me what his “redemption period” was?

(Sauron is a stand-in for Lucifer, right?) 

[slant]

DJ Arondir learns how to geoengineer a stratovolcano eruption

It is a good think the mountain blew its top, could have easily been more destructive if it held all that in for longer. Good job.

Im going back to watching more of Andor.  

53 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Reading up on the Sauron theories, could some kind would explain to me what his “redemption period” was?

(Sauron is a stand-in for Lucifer, right?) 

No clue.. which theories. Morgoth was given a few second chances by the Valar, who are kind of like angels. Sauron was not, but he pretended to be good and fooled a few elves, not Gil-Galad and Galadriel though. 

AFAIK, Sauron is just a servant of Morgoth, who is the stand-in for Lucifer... Sauron is one of Morgoth's most talented students, from whom he learns the skill to create artefacts like the rings, presumably continuing what he learned under Aule. Most of the others became Balrogs. 

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Solid interactive map for the show.

This is good, along the lines of what I had figured out... but still this map does not contain all the locations shown in the maps on screen... The Braids, Underclipps, Trout Bend, Thistledell and so on. The Numenoreans have another map now in latest episode. 

Despite the accuracy of the leaks, I am holding on to Halbrand being one of the Nine Kings of Men. The guy who posted the leaks may not be an Amazon employee at all, but a press rep who got to see a few episodes. Can also be part of the promotions team that got to edit some of the footage for making trailers and such. Doubt the leaker has seen all the episodes, one clue is that he refers to them as 'footage', another is that there have to be more important moments in the series than the ones he talked about. 

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

12 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Reading up on the Sauron theories, could some kind would explain to me what his “redemption period” was?

A time after Morgoth's overthrow where he wanted to repent and reestablish order in Middle-earth. However after he refused to go to the Valar for judgement, he soon fell back into his old ways and became a tyrant. Even with the show's time compression his relapse should have long since happened there.

[slant]

^But that was Morgoth, not Sauron right?

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

11 minutes ago, slant said:

^But that was Morgoth, not Sauron right?

Nope. Well not quite. Morgoth did indeed feign repentance after his imprisonment ended. Unlike Sauron he definitely never had any intention to change his ways.

[Ser Drewy]

Mostly liked this episode. They've done a good job with the Orcs, presenting them as credible threats rather than Star Wars battle droids. The tower part at the start was a bit silly though rather tame compared to some of Jackson's shenannigans. Battle was surprisingly gory at points, other parts were a bit goofy. Interesting turn with the villagers dressed up in Orc gear. I'm glad Adar was one of the first turned rather than, y'know, Maglor or somebody. Very good performance from that actor as well. Not sure where Galadriel disappeared to at the end of that chase scene, but I guess they wanted Halbrand to have that dark moment with a vulnerable Adar mostly uninterrupted. Galadriel being so cruel... was a choice. I do feel they need to balance her character out better. Spectacular visuals at the end. Not sure, realistically, any of them survive that. The sword-switch wasn't well done though - this show needs to work on its plotting. 

[Cas Stark]

I don't have anything much to add.  I keep watching because it's Tolkien, but I have a very hard time maintaining interest and never get through the ep without several stops and starts.  It no longer interests me enough to nit pick.  I do like Arondir, he at least is likeable, stoic, skillful, and handsome.  I read the spoiler, and that seems crazy to me, but whatever.

[Heartofice]

18 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I don't have anything much to add.  I keep watching because it's Tolkien, but I have a very hard time maintaining interest and never get through the ep without several stops and starts.  It no longer interests me enough to nit pick.  I do like Arondir, he at least is likeable, stoic, skillful, and handsome.  I read the spoiler, and that seems crazy to me, but whatever.

Same. Honestly I struggle to get through a single scene without losing interest and having my mind wander . I keep watching to just stay relevant but I can’t quite put my finger on what is so unengaging about it all.

[Darryk]

Hilarious to see them try to cram Helm's Deep and the Riders of Rohan into a single episode and have it fail miserably because of their bland characters and cringeworthy dialogue.

I've come up with the idea of new RoP  toy; a Galadriel doll that delivers a random inane line every time you pull a string on its back.

"There is a tempest in me"

"You cannot sate thirst with seawater"

"The armor that should rest upon your shoulders now weighs upon your soul"

"A ride, you say?"

 

[fionwe1987]

Rube Goldberg's Orodruin!

ETA: other thoughts later. Speechless. 

[karaddin]

Maybe it's due to the migraine I had but I was much less engaged by this episode. I did think Halbrand as Sauron felt quite strongly hinted at by the episode, particularly the "do you know who I am" to Adar - I thought it was pretty clear he'd have been dead immediately if he did recognize him.

The Elvish watch tower having a mechanism in it to demolish the dam attached to it that used Sauron's sword as it's key felt more than a little contrived - why would that be there? Unless the dam part was meant to already be there and the Elves just built their watch tower on top of it. Revealing that the tunnels and ditches were drainage channels to carry the water to Orodruin felt much better though, revealing that their purpose was completely different to what Arondir and the other captured Elves worked nicely... Apart from being built on top of the contrived dam mechanism.

The evil villagers dressed as orcs also worked for giving the good villagers their moment of triumph but having it be a false triumph in multiple ways. I think my biggest issue here runs into a problem I've had at other times in depictions, the size of these Southland villages are just so small. Nowhere feels like it's even close to large enough to support the populations that should be living there.