Craster, the Starks, the Others, and Human Sacrifice

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

Craster was born to a Wildling woman and a man of the Night's Watch.  His mother presented him to the Watch but they refused to take him in.  He grew to manhood on the north side of the wall and built his own keep.  He took his daughters for wives and had children with them.  He was known to offer his baby sons to the White Walkers.  But still, he had always maintained good relations with the Night's Watch.  What is more remarkable are the White Walkers for allowing him to live at all.  The relationship between the Night's Watch, Craster, and the White Walkers is not simple.  It's not a simple "the friend of my enemy is also my enemy."  Craster was a friend to both.  You could say he was trading with the NW and the WW.

The thirteenth Lord Commander, a man from House Stark, met a pale woman and fell in love.  He took her for his wife and they ruled the Wall for thirteen years.  This man must have had the power to control minds because the Crows accepted this arrangement.  It was found that he was "sacrificing" his children to the White Walkers.  His name was removed from history to protect the Stark reputation.

The Wildlings are a promiscuous people.  Babies were made all the time.  It is assumed that many of these babies were unwanted and they were left in the woods to die.  The Lord's right to the first night also resulted in many unwanted babies that were left to die in the woods.  Craster's sons were special though.  The White Walkers allowed Craster, might have even protected him, to live in his keep.  All Craster did in return was to give them his sons.  His sons were more acceptable to the White Walkers and we have to ask why. 

Why was baby Craster turned away at the wall?  Probably because his presence would create an awkward situation for a noble family who was particularly prickly about their honor.  Craster's father was a Stark.  Just like the thirteenth lord commander was a Stark.  The boys he was offering to the White Walkers carried the blood line of the 13th commander.  Craster is of noble blood.  The Starks were the Kings In The North.  Craster has king's blood. 

The Starks of Winterfell also practiced human sacrifice, but of a different kind.  The Starks killed their victims and used the blood to provide nutrition for the Weirwood.  Craster gave his sons to the White Walkers and they were assimilated to the Others.  I am saying this.  The North have no problem with human sacrifice.  They left bastards and accidental babies to the elements to die.  So why did they all of a sudden have a problem with the 13th commander doing the same?  Because he was not.  He was not murdering the children.  He was offering them to the White Walkers.  He was increasing their numbers and making them powerful. His blood carried the skinchanging genes that the White Walkers depend on to control their wights. 

The Lord Commanders who followed learned that this bought them peace with the White Walkers.  The Free Cities gave gifts to the Dothraki to buy their safety.  The Night's Watch, Craster, were doing the same things.  Some truths are very uncomfortable.  The Lord Commanders must have kept this secret from the other Crows.  Bloodraven comes to the wall and expected to fight wildlings.  All of this must have been a shock to him. 

Why did Brandon build the wall?  I would guess because the Starks were reluctant to continue giving their sons.  But the flow of babies cannot be completely stopped.  The non-Stark babies were used as food for the wights.  The ones with the Stark genes, like Craster's, were assimilated to the White Walkers.  The White Walkers are placated as long as there is a Craster or a Stark provider.  Craster's death during the mutiny at his keep stopped the flow.  Trouble is coming. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by James Fenimore Cooper XXII

[Craving Peaches]

I don't think there's enough evidence to say that Craster was a Stark. Jon saw him and didn't mention any traits as specifically being Stark traits, I don't think.

The Thirteenth Lord Commander may have been a Stark, I think it's the most likely option thematically, but the only evidence seems to be Old Nan's story.

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Starks of Winterfell also practiced human sacrifice, but of a different kind.  The Starks killed their victims and used the blood to provide nutrition for the Weirwood.

I don't think one can say for certain whether the human sacrifice was human sacrifice or just a method of execution, and if it was human sacrifice whether it was specifically to nurture the Tree.

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The North have no problem with human sacrifice.

I think it would be more correct to say that they had no problem with human sacrifice, if indeed it was human sacrifice and not just a method of execution. They must have a problem with it now because no one in the North is said to practice it (aside from maybe Skagos).

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Trouble is coming. 

I think trouble was coming anyway because at the beginning of the series the Others are attacking members of the Night's Watch even though the baby sacrifice scheme was still in play.

[BalerionTheCat]

Hanging men in trees is not necessarily sacrificing innocents; and feeding the trees with blood. Likely, they were true criminals. And it was more a traditional punishment than a human sacrifice. With no expectation of a reward in exchange.

I've no doubt that some maesters sent to the north made a duty of recording the ramblings of old women. The Citadel must be full of such books.

Anyway, there are certainly some truths in them. The north was (is) not without men like Varamyr or the Weeper, or Ramsay and skinners of his kind. But it doesn't mean that the Starks and the larger part of the population were (are) that bloody and insane.

As for the Others. Apparently they are back only recently. So I don't think it was usual practice to give them babies. Maybe Craster was glad to have them taking the boys. So it would not be kinslaying. But nothing else in exchange.

Edited September 25, 2022 by BalerionTheCat

[Rosetta Stone]

The free folk were also sacrificing whether they understood the ancient pact or not.  By discarding babies.  Mance is a man who never liked being made to do something he does not agree with.  He stopped the free folk from disposing of their babies in this way. 

Craster lived as free as possible for a man.  There is a price for freedom and he was paying with his boys.  I don't think his sacrifice is a blanket that covers for the Watch and the other free folk.  But the white walkers preferred his boys and made sure to let him be.  The watch hides behind the protection of its walls and only occasionally trespassed into the white walker's territories.  The free folk, on the other hand, occupy the territories of the white walkers.  They were paying with their babies.  Their babies do not have the gene for skinchanging but they could be made into wights and other creatures who serve the white walkers.  I believe the upper ranks of the white walkers are made up of Craster's boys because they have the blood of the Starks.  The Starks are then kin to some of the white walkers.  Discarded Stark bastards were probably the ancestors of the ruler among white walkers.  One of the bastard Stark babies miraculously survived and turned into a creature that would become the leader of the white walkers.  They would accept a Stark leader if the white walkers are discarded bastards from the north.  They want to claim the north from their kin.  Winter is their time and they will take what their forefathers owed them.

[StarkTullies]

2 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The thirteenth Lord Commander, a man from House Stark, met a pale woman and fell in love.  He took her for his wife and they ruled the Wall for thirteen years.  This man must have had the power to control minds because the Crows accepted this arrangement.  It was found that he was "sacrificing" his children to the White Walkers.  His name was removed from history to protect the Stark reputation.

It is entirely possible that the Night's King was a Stark, since many lord commanders were.  It is more likely that he wasn't, since the majority were not.  We have no reason to believe he was a Stark other than Old Nan's claim, and she tells tales of some which are true, some which aren't.  Old Nan doesn't have any more knowledge of multi-thousand-year-old events than anyone else living unless she has greenseeing powers (which we have no reason to believe).

Just like the Night's King identity is unknown, so is the "truth" of what he was really like.  The tale states that he "gave his seed" to a woman of the Others.  Since the Others bring unbearable cold with them, the mechanics of "giving his seed" to her is impossible.  If that part of the tale is false (obviously it is), we can't rely on any claims about the Night's King at all.

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Craster's father was a Stark.

Craster is not that ancient, and is there any record of recent Starks (other than Benjen) serving at the Wall?  There are hundreds of Rangers, and very few of them are Starks.  There is no strong support for Craster being a Stark.

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Starks were the Kings In The North.

Melisandre is obsessed with king's blood, but we have learned that Melisandre is often wrong.  I don't think George Martin actually believes that king's blood has true power, and I doubt the Others do either.  Let's say the Others do want king's blood.  The Starks haven't been kings for 300 years, but before there were Seven Kingdoms, there were hundreds of kingdoms... with hundreds of kings.  Go back far enough (since you are going back nearly 10,000 years to the 13th lord commander), most people in Westeros have "king's blood" in them.

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The North have no problem with human sacrifice.

Sure they do.  What the North may have done or accepted hundreds/thousands of years earlier isn't what they do or accept now.  There is no evidence whatsoever of recent human sacrifices in the North.  Even the Boltons- the worst of the North who keeps the worst of their traditions (flaying and "first night")- don't perform human sacrifices.

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Why did Brandon build the wall?  I would guess because the Starks were reluctant to continue giving their sons.

Brandon the Builder is as mythical figure that we know as little about as the Night's King, and he may not have existed at all.  But if he did exist, his reasons aren't mysterious.  He built the Wall to away the Others.  The fact that spells are woven into the Wall to keep the dead from passing essentially proves that.

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Craster's death during the mutiny at his keep stopped the flow.  Trouble is coming. 

Trouble came before Craster's death.  Mance Rayder united the Free Folk due to the threat of the Others and the attack on the Fists of the First Men both happened before Craster's death.

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The ones with the Stark genes, like Craster's, were assimilated to the White Walkers.  The White Walkers are placated as long as there is a Craster or a Stark provider.

I find this is extremely unlikely, but we know so little about what was really going on with Craster that all we can do is speculate.  We don't know where the Others came from or how they are "born", but we do know that the Others existed before Brandon the Builder formally founded House Stark and before the 13th lord commander.

 

[Evolett]

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

So why did they all of a sudden have a problem with the 13th commander doing the same?  Because he was not. 

The 13th LC was not deposed for sacrificing to the Others. That wasn't the issue. It was only after his fall they found out:

Quote

For thirteen years they had ruled, Night’s King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night’s King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden. 

No mention is made of the nature of those sacrifices. The reader assumes he sacrificed his babes. 

[Darth Sidious]

Thirteen years. It took that long to stop him. It makes sense if the Starks were protecting him. He was one of their own. All the trouble caused by Brandon and Lyanna and they were still buried with honors in the crypts. The commander’s frozen remains is also down there. He loved his bride and would protect her body from desecration. Either she is hidden somewhere in the Wall or she still lives. If the latter, she will be looking for his reincarnation, Jon Snow.  
 

 

[Rosetta Stone]

The sacrificing of humans is perfectly acceptable in the North.  The problem had to come from this lord commander's new religion.  His way of worshiping and offerings made the Others stronger.  He was a conflicted man as is the current lord commander.  Love did that to both men.  He could no longer be trusted to defend the wall. 

[Craving Peaches]

7 minutes ago, Rosetta Stone said:

The sacrificing of humans is perfectly acceptable in the North.

Well it's clearly not anymore, if it ever was, because no one in the present day North practices it. And there isn't enough to determine whether what Bran saw was an instance of human sacrifice or just an execution.

[Rosetta Stone]

2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Well it's clearly not anymore, if it ever was, because no one in the present day North practices it. And there isn't enough to determine whether what Bran saw was an instance of human sacrifice or just an execution.

The Stark lords executed people all the time.  This event was special and had significance.  It shows Bran the savage brutality of his family.  Very sadly, it may be the answer Bran turns to in order to avenge the Starks and beat the Boltons. 

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, Rosetta Stone said:

The Stark lords executed people all the time.  This event was special and had significance.  It shows Bran the savage brutality of his family.  Very sadly, it may be the answer Bran turns to in order to avenge the Starks and beat the Boltons.

Execution the way the present day Starks do it is not human sacrifice. And there is not enough information to determine whether what Bran saw was human sacrifice or just an execution of a criminal.

[Darth Sidious]

Ned Stark was our intro to the Starks. He was presented to us as a man with morality and compassion. But we need to look at his childhood to see why he was different from Brandon and Lyanna. He was fostered at the Vale and away from Brandon. He was not meant to rule the north. The ritual of the blood sacrifice is understandably kept a secret from the Crown. Only the reigning lord of Winterfell and his heir would know to carry it out. The Starks could have continued the ritual until the death of Rickard Stark. 
 

Ned washed the blood of those he killed in the pond. That blood, even if Ned was unaware, fed the tree. The tree was not exactly starving but the amount of human fertilizer had become a trickle. So the Gods brought about the births of a generation of Starks with abilities to reconnect to nature. These Stark kids will be murdering and pouring blood back to the trees. 

[Rondo]

Craster's immediately family has not gone extinct.  He shares the DNA with the Starks.  His last son is being cared for at Castle Black.  The little fellow will be important.  

[Rosetta Stone]

@Darth Sidious  The Others will bring the body of the lord commander back from the crypts.  One of the Starks will skin change this wight and claim the rule over the Others. 

[Targaryen Restoration]

A few Targaryens have high tolerance for heat.  The Starks would also have rare specimens among them who can tolerate the cold.  This LC was one of those.  

[Craving Peaches]

8 hours ago, Rosetta Stone said:

The Others will bring the body of the lord commander back from the crypts.  One of the Starks will skin change this wight and claim the rule over the Others.

How could the Others resurrect people south of the wall?

[Craving Peaches]

9 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

The ritual of the blood sacrifice is understandably kept a secret from the Crown. Only the reigning lord of Winterfell and his heir would know to carry it out. The Starks could have continued the ritual until the death of Rickard Stark.

There is no evidence for this.

9 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

Ned washed the blood of those he killed in the pond. That blood, even if Ned was unaware, fed the tree. The tree was not exactly starving but the amount of human fertilizer had become a trickle. So the Gods brought about the births of a generation of Starks with abilities to reconnect to nature. These Stark kids will be murdering and pouring blood back to the trees. 

Is it ever said or even implied that Weirwoods require human blood as nutrition? If so, how did the CotF feed them before there were any humans on Westeros? Even if all the Stark children become homicidal maniacs (unlikely) where would they learn the supposed 'human sacrifice' part from? If it died with Brandon then they can't. 

[Damsel in Distress]

19 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Craster was born to a Wildling woman and a man of the Night's Watch.  His mother presented him to the Watch but they refused to take him in.  He grew to manhood on the north side of the wall and built his own keep.  He took his daughters for wives and had children with them.  He was known to offer his baby sons to the White Walkers.  But still, he had always maintained good relations with the Night's Watch.  What is more remarkable are the White Walkers for allowing him to live at all.  The relationship between the Night's Watch, Craster, and the White Walkers is not simple.  It's not a simple "the friend of my enemy is also my enemy."  Craster was a friend to both.  You could say he was trading with the NW and the WW.

The thirteenth Lord Commander, a man from House Stark, met a pale woman and fell in love.  He took her for his wife and they ruled the Wall for thirteen years.  This man must have had the power to control minds because the Crows accepted this arrangement.  It was found that he was "sacrificing" his children to the White Walkers.  His name was removed from history to protect the Stark reputation.

The Wildlings are a promiscuous people.  Babies were made all the time.  It is assumed that many of these babies were unwanted and they were left in the woods to die.  The Lord's right to the first night also resulted in many unwanted babies that were left to die in the woods.  Craster's sons were special though.  The White Walkers allowed Craster, might have even protected him, to live in his keep.  All Craster did in return was to give them his sons.  His sons were more acceptable to the White Walkers and we have to ask why. 

Why was baby Craster turned away at the wall?  Probably because his presence would create an awkward situation for a noble family who was particularly prickly about their honor.  Craster's father was a Stark.  Just like the thirteenth lord commander was a Stark.  The boys he was offering to the White Walkers carried the blood line of the 13th commander.  Craster is of noble blood.  The Starks were the Kings In The North.  Craster has king's blood. 

The Starks of Winterfell also practiced human sacrifice, but of a different kind.  The Starks killed their victims and used the blood to provide nutrition for the Weirwood.  Craster gave his sons to the White Walkers and they were assimilated to the Others.  I am saying this.  The North have no problem with human sacrifice.  They left bastards and accidental babies to the elements to die.  So why did they all of a sudden have a problem with the 13th commander doing the same?  Because he was not.  He was not murdering the children.  He was offering them to the White Walkers.  He was increasing their numbers and making them powerful. His blood carried the skinchanging genes that the White Walkers depend on to control their wights. 

The Lord Commanders who followed learned that this bought them peace with the White Walkers.  The Free Cities gave gifts to the Dothraki to buy their safety.  The Night's Watch, Craster, were doing the same things.  Some truths are very uncomfortable.  The Lord Commanders must have kept this secret from the other Crows.  Bloodraven comes to the wall and expected to fight wildlings.  All of this must have been a shock to him. 

Why did Brandon build the wall?  I would guess because the Starks were reluctant to continue giving their sons.  But the flow of babies cannot be completely stopped.  The non-Stark babies were used as food for the wights.  The ones with the Stark genes, like Craster's, were assimilated to the White Walkers.  The White Walkers are placated as long as there is a Craster or a Stark provider.  Craster's death during the mutiny at his keep stopped the flow.  Trouble is coming. 

 

 

 

 

 

Craster and his family were violated.  The Gods punish those who hurt their loyal follower.  Yeah, so the men who did it will get their punishment.  That is how it's supposed to work.  His little boy can end up being the savior. 

[Corvo the Crow]

It has been discussed time and again whether Craster is a Stark or not, there’s simply no evidence FOR and plenty AGAINST, and some lack of evidence that makes it more likely against than for.

We know of no wildling members of NW members  that were taken by the Watch. The sole instance that we know of a wildling boy taken in by the Watch is Mance and Mance wasn’t the son of any NW brother.

The fact that Craster deals with WW shows us there are other ways to deal with WW besides obsidian and that they aren’t mindless monstrosities. Monstrosities they may be but they can be “reasoned with”, they are treatable. Which is, in my opinion, exactly what the Last Hero did. Last hero, the black brother of a Stark, the so called thirteenth lord commander who actually had set forth as the Last Hero with a dozen companions, hence the thirteen.

[The Gizzard of Oz]

Craster was treated like a bastard by the night's watch.  He was a bastard.  But bastards are loyal to their fathers' houses.  We need only to look at Jon Snow and Ramsay Snow.  He gave them shelter and food.  They gave him iron tools.  They were bartering.  He was doing the same bartering with the white walkers.  

The theory is fascinating.  I can't wait to see if Gilly and her biological son will have the talent to warg wolves.