Jump to content

Craster, the Starks, the Others, and Human Sacrifice


Recommended Posts

  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/23/2022 at 1:24 AM, Loose Bolt said:

Crypts of WF were warm enough that Bran, Rickon and other people with them could survive there couple weeks. Besides Winterfell has been built over natural hot springs so those should keep crypts warmer than they would be without those hot springs.

The crypts are deep and very large.  I would think it gets colder in the lowest levels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/25/2022 at 11:37 AM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Craster was born to a Wildling woman and a man of the Night's Watch.  His mother presented him to the Watch but they refused to take him in.  He grew to manhood on the north side of the wall and built his own keep.  He took his daughters for wives and had children with them.  He was known to offer his baby sons to the White Walkers.  But still, he had always maintained good relations with the Night's Watch.  What is more remarkable are the White Walkers for allowing him to live at all.  The relationship between the Night's Watch, Craster, and the White Walkers is not simple.  It's not a simple "the friend of my enemy is also my enemy."  Craster was a friend to both.  You could say he was trading with the NW and the WW.

The thirteenth Lord Commander, a man from House Stark, met a pale woman and fell in love.  He took her for his wife and they ruled the Wall for thirteen years.  This man must have had the power to control minds because the Crows accepted this arrangement.  It was found that he was "sacrificing" his children to the White Walkers.  His name was removed from history to protect the Stark reputation.

The Wildlings are a promiscuous people.  Babies were made all the time.  It is assumed that many of these babies were unwanted and they were left in the woods to die.  The Lord's right to the first night also resulted in many unwanted babies that were left to die in the woods.  Craster's sons were special though.  The White Walkers allowed Craster, might have even protected him, to live in his keep.  All Craster did in return was to give them his sons.  His sons were more acceptable to the White Walkers and we have to ask why. 

Why was baby Craster turned away at the wall?  Probably because his presence would create an awkward situation for a noble family who was particularly prickly about their honor.  Craster's father was a Stark.  Just like the thirteenth lord commander was a Stark.  The boys he was offering to the White Walkers carried the blood line of the 13th commander.  Craster is of noble blood.  The Starks were the Kings In The North.  Craster has king's blood. 

The Starks of Winterfell also practiced human sacrifice, but of a different kind.  The Starks killed their victims and used the blood to provide nutrition for the Weirwood.  Craster gave his sons to the White Walkers and they were assimilated to the Others.  I am saying this.  The North have no problem with human sacrifice.  They left bastards and accidental babies to the elements to die.  So why did they all of a sudden have a problem with the 13th commander doing the same?  Because he was not.  He was not murdering the children.  He was offering them to the White Walkers.  He was increasing their numbers and making them powerful. His blood carried the skinchanging genes that the White Walkers depend on to control their wights. 

The Lord Commanders who followed learned that this bought them peace with the White Walkers.  The Free Cities gave gifts to the Dothraki to buy their safety.  The Night's Watch, Craster, were doing the same things.  Some truths are very uncomfortable.  The Lord Commanders must have kept this secret from the other Crows.  Bloodraven comes to the wall and expected to fight wildlings.  All of this must have been a shock to him. 

Why did Brandon build the wall?  I would guess because the Starks were reluctant to continue giving their sons.  But the flow of babies cannot be completely stopped.  The non-Stark babies were used as food for the wights.  The ones with the Stark genes, like Craster's, were assimilated to the White Walkers.  The White Walkers are placated as long as there is a Craster or a Stark provider.  Craster's death during the mutiny at his keep stopped the flow.  Trouble is coming. 

 

 

 

 

 

Would they accept Bran as a sacrifice?  He is crippled but his magic is strong.  They can carry him in a basket. 

Craster being a Stark has potential for a good northern story.  The Targaryens practiced incest.  Jaime and Cersei took that to an extreme, being twins and lovers.  Craster Stark really took the concept to further extremes with his incest by repeatedly mating within his own family.  A possible incestuous relationship could have existed between Lyanna and Brandon too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/2/2022 at 7:49 PM, Roswell said:

Would they accept Bran as a sacrifice?  He is crippled but his magic is strong.  They can carry him in a basket. 

Craster being a Stark has potential for a good northern story.  The Targaryens practiced incest.  Jaime and Cersei took that to an extreme, being twins and lovers.  Craster Stark really took the concept to further extremes with his incest by repeatedly mating within his own family.  A possible incestuous relationship could have existed between Lyanna and Brandon too.

Bran is a generous offering from the Starks to the Others.  He has what they need.  Skin Changing and Greenseeing.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/2/2022 at 7:49 PM, Roswell said:

Would they accept Bran as a sacrifice?  He is crippled but his magic is strong.  They can carry him in a basket. 

Craster being a Stark has potential for a good northern story.  The Targaryens practiced incest.  Jaime and Cersei took that to an extreme, being twins and lovers.  Craster Stark really took the concept to further extremes with his incest by repeatedly mating within his own family.  A possible incestuous relationship could have existed between Lyanna and Brandon too.

It could help explain Brandon's extreme behavior when he learned Lyanna disappeared.  Rickard would have forced an abortion on Lyanna and that can explain why she chose to run away.  It is a very neat parallel to Gillie because both women's families are of the Stark bloodline. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/11/2022 at 9:21 PM, Bowen Marsh said:

It could help explain Brandon's extreme behavior when he learned Lyanna disappeared.  Rickard would have forced an abortion on Lyanna and that can explain why she chose to run away.  It is a very neat parallel to Gillie because both women's families are of the Stark bloodline. 

The abortion is a good comparison to Lysa as well. Except Lysa didn’t try to run away. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/11/2022 at 9:21 PM, Bowen Marsh said:

It could help explain Brandon's extreme behavior when he learned Lyanna disappeared.  Rickard would have forced an abortion on Lyanna and that can explain why she chose to run away.  It is a very neat parallel to Gillie because both women's families are of the Stark bloodline. 

Threatening his king's family was an act of madness from Brandon Stark.  Yes, so if Lyanna Stark and he were lovers and she was carrying his child, yes, that would explain it.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/24/2022 at 1:27 PM, kissdbyfire said:

The Boltons’ penchant for flaying comes from skinchanger envy. 

This might actually be true, at least based on GRRM's other stories The Skin Trade and In the Lost Lands. My guess is that the detail is kind of an easter egg for fans of those stories, like the Pale Child statue that Arya sees in the HoBaW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/2/2022 at 7:49 PM, Roswell said:

Would they accept Bran as a sacrifice?  He is crippled but his magic is strong.  They can carry him in a basket. 

Craster being a Stark has potential for a good northern story.  The Targaryens practiced incest.  Jaime and Cersei took that to an extreme, being twins and lovers.  Craster Stark really took the concept to further extremes with his incest by repeatedly mating within his own family.  A possible incestuous relationship could have existed between Lyanna and Brandon too.

This story is full of parallel characters and families. The Starks' skinchanging and warging talents are recessive traits.  They had to have been practicing incest in the past order to bring out the talents in the children.  Gilly's son at the wall could become a very powerful skinchanger.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/11/2022 at 9:21 PM, Bowen Marsh said:

It could help explain Brandon's extreme behavior when he learned Lyanna disappeared.  Rickard would have forced an abortion on Lyanna and that can explain why she chose to run away.  It is a very neat parallel to Gillie because both women's families are of the Stark bloodline. 

One of the better theories for Jon's parents is the pair of Brandon Stark and Lyanna Stark.  Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon Snow.  There are others are as well such as R + L, N + A, M + L.  

Ice must also have its promised prince.  A boy or girl who is pure Stark.  Jon Snow fits the bill.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/19/2022 at 7:07 PM, Rondo said:

One of the better theories for Jon's parents is the pair of Brandon Stark and Lyanna Stark.  Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon Snow.  There are others are as well such as R + L, N + A, M + L.  

Ice must also have its promised prince.  A boy or girl who is pure Stark.  Jon Snow fits the bill.  

 

The White Walkers are awaiting the coming of the Nights King and that will be the resurrected Jon Snow.  He's the reincarnation of the Nights King.  Arya or even Val will be his Corpse Queen.  They will rule the wall as lovers for 13 years.  The romance between Jon and Arya have been planned since GM's first draft.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/25/2022 at 11:37 AM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Craster was born to a Wildling woman and a man of the Night's Watch.  His mother presented him to the Watch but they refused to take him in.  He grew to manhood on the north side of the wall and built his own keep.  He took his daughters for wives and had children with them.  He was known to offer his baby sons to the White Walkers.  But still, he had always maintained good relations with the Night's Watch.  What is more remarkable are the White Walkers for allowing him to live at all.  The relationship between the Night's Watch, Craster, and the White Walkers is not simple.  It's not a simple "the friend of my enemy is also my enemy."  Craster was a friend to both.  You could say he was trading with the NW and the WW.

The thirteenth Lord Commander, a man from House Stark, met a pale woman and fell in love.  He took her for his wife and they ruled the Wall for thirteen years.  This man must have had the power to control minds because the Crows accepted this arrangement.  It was found that he was "sacrificing" his children to the White Walkers.  His name was removed from history to protect the Stark reputation.

The Wildlings are a promiscuous people.  Babies were made all the time.  It is assumed that many of these babies were unwanted and they were left in the woods to die.  The Lord's right to the first night also resulted in many unwanted babies that were left to die in the woods.  Craster's sons were special though.  The White Walkers allowed Craster, might have even protected him, to live in his keep.  All Craster did in return was to give them his sons.  His sons were more acceptable to the White Walkers and we have to ask why. 

Why was baby Craster turned away at the wall?  Probably because his presence would create an awkward situation for a noble family who was particularly prickly about their honor.  Craster's father was a Stark.  Just like the thirteenth lord commander was a Stark.  The boys he was offering to the White Walkers carried the blood line of the 13th commander.  Craster is of noble blood.  The Starks were the Kings In The North.  Craster has king's blood. 

The Starks of Winterfell also practiced human sacrifice, but of a different kind.  The Starks killed their victims and used the blood to provide nutrition for the Weirwood.  Craster gave his sons to the White Walkers and they were assimilated to the Others.  I am saying this.  The North have no problem with human sacrifice.  They left bastards and accidental babies to the elements to die.  So why did they all of a sudden have a problem with the 13th commander doing the same?  Because he was not.  He was not murdering the children.  He was offering them to the White Walkers.  He was increasing their numbers and making them powerful. His blood carried the skinchanging genes that the White Walkers depend on to control their wights. 

The Lord Commanders who followed learned that this bought them peace with the White Walkers.  The Free Cities gave gifts to the Dothraki to buy their safety.  The Night's Watch, Craster, were doing the same things.  Some truths are very uncomfortable.  The Lord Commanders must have kept this secret from the other Crows.  Bloodraven comes to the wall and expected to fight wildlings.  All of this must have been a shock to him. 

Why did Brandon build the wall?  I would guess because the Starks were reluctant to continue giving their sons.  But the flow of babies cannot be completely stopped.  The non-Stark babies were used as food for the wights.  The ones with the Stark genes, like Craster's, were assimilated to the White Walkers.  The White Walkers are placated as long as there is a Craster or a Stark provider.  Craster's death during the mutiny at his keep stopped the flow.  Trouble is coming. 

 

 

 

 

 

As the saying goes "only death can pay for life."  Those weirwoods took the life of many people and animals.  The Starks killed many living things, humans and animals, to give life to the trees.  It's a disturbing realization.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Kierria said:

As the saying goes "only death can pay for life."  Those weirwoods took the life of many people and animals.  The Starks killed many living things, humans and animals, to give life to the trees.  It's a disturbing realization.  

Just like the Targaryens and their dragons killed many living things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Kierria said:

As the saying goes "only death can pay for life."  Those weirwoods took the life of many people and animals.  The Starks killed many living things, humans and animals, to give life to the trees.  It's a disturbing realization.  

Not nearly as disturbing as some of the stuff I read here on a daily basis. Like defending murderers and serial rapists and torturers. 
But don’t let me interrupt you from doing just that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/14/2022 at 12:29 PM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

This might actually be true, at least based on GRRM's other stories The Skin Trade and In the Lost Lands. My guess is that the detail is kind of an easter egg for fans of those stories, like the Pale Child statue that Arya sees in the HoBaW.

I do think that there is a ritualistic basis to flaying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/14/2022 at 9:29 AM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

This might actually be true, at least based on GRRM's other stories The Skin Trade and In the Lost Lands. My guess is that the detail is kind of an easter egg for fans of those stories, like the Pale Child statue that Arya sees in the HoBaW.

I think it is, even if many readers take it as me joking. Many FM got the skinchanging gift from the CotF somehow, maybe during the Pact or thereabouts. But not all FM, and the Boltons were among the few that didn’t. So they started flaying and wearing their enemies’ skins, literally.  
 

ETA: that’s obviously a very brief summary. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/23/2022 at 7:48 AM, Roswell said:

 

The White Walkers are awaiting the coming of the Nights King and that will be the resurrected Jon Snow.  He's the reincarnation of the Nights King.  Arya or even Val will be his Corpse Queen.  They will rule the wall as lovers for 13 years.  The romance between Jon and Arya have been planned since GM's first draft.  

Arya is already the queen of corpses. She is up to her elbows in cadavers. She tortured Sweetling, wears the faces of the dead, kills the innocent.  Val is wild and heartless towards Shireen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Arya is already the queen of corpses. She is up to her elbows in cadavers

She's killed like 5 people total, one of whom was in self-defence, most of the others were kills she was ordered to carry out or to escape captivity. The only killing she carried out purely of her own free will that served no purpose was Dareon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/11/2022 at 9:23 AM, Quoth the raven, said:

Winterfell's  weirwood must have drank the blood of thousands in its very long life.  The sacrificial victims were mostly humans but I suppose the Starks killed animals too.  They also slew a few Children of the Forest to give the tree a little variety. 

The Children Of the Forest would not mind too much if they were offered to the trees.  But the poor man killed by the Stark woman was not at all happy.  He was a victim of the Stark's lust for blood. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/5/2023 at 11:24 AM, Craving Peaches said:

She's killed like 5 people total, one of whom was in self-defence, most of the others were kills she was ordered to carry out or to escape captivity. The only killing she carried out purely of her own free will that served no purpose was Dareon.

Arya will kill many, many more. Her list is long.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...