[Spoilers] Episode 106 Discussion

[HOTDfresher]

1 minute ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Her having 3 child who are clearly bastards also undermines her own ascension, because it opens a new avenue to be exploited against her (people can go to war claiming they don't bastards in the Iron Throne when she dies, or they don't want an adulteress as Queen- and of course, they would use much more offensive words than that ).

If she couldn't have kids with Laenor, she'd better off not having kids at all. In fact, would make a war much less likely, since Aegon would be her heir anyway (and in the show, the age difference between them might as well be mother and child).

That is what she should have done. But alas she might have wanted to have her 1st kid to not give the opposition any fuel to disinherit her due to being barren. I don't think she could have predicted that the child wouldn't be born with signature Targaryen features.  And that is where she should have stopped having kids with Harwin. 

 

But when has anyone in this show done anything that they should have done. From the Targaryens to the Hightowers to Cole to Larys Strong, everyone just does things a few steps further than required.

[DMC]

I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked this episode.  I expected to resent Emma D'Arcy simply due to how much I liked Milly Alcock, but she was outstanding.  I also thought they did a much better job this ep in showing warmth and caring among the family -- well, excepting Alicent of course. 

And my gods, hard to say there's any whitewashing for her at this point, or I suppose if only in comparison to Larys and Cole who are indeed pretty cartoonish in their villainy.  But..that's the story, or at least I accept that's how it goes to make the story work.  

I really enjoyed the small council scene.  At least until the end, which..was a very weird choice and uncalled for.  But, the repartee between Rhaenyra and Alicent was tons of fun and very well done.  It's unfortunate we can't get more of that because that is everything that attracted me to this series in the first place. 

I also liked what they did with Lyonel and his relationship with Viserys in very limited time.  You can see why the latter trusts the former above all others, and his rejected resignation in front of Alicent worked really well for me.  Considering the lack of characterization in the books they did quite an admirable job filling him in.

Anyway, glancing over this thread I do get much of the complaints.  Things were glossed over, aye, and Daemon is, like, exactly 180 degrees a different character this episode compared to the first five.  BUT, I do think it kinda makes sense in him being bored and resigned and just accepting his position after a decade. 

And while the internet will certainly whine about Laena's death being "fridging," they frankly spent more time on her than I expected.  They devoted a good portion of this episode to showing how she's, well, a pretty awesome character with adorable twins and a miserable husband.  And the death was oddly touching.

[Ran]

28 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I was wondering about this. By the end of the season we should be getting all the final actors, right?

From the legitimate members of the Greens and Blacks, yes. There's obviously the dragonseeds next season. And whether they have intend to cast Daeron or not.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Ran

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

19 minutes ago, HOTDfresher said:

I think the reason Allicent & Criston get more hate than Daemon is because they act so holier than thou while continuosly doing wrong actions in the name of hating Rhaenyra. The amount of hate that they have for Rhaenyra is unwarranted. 

At least Criston's bitterness towards Rhaenyra is completely justified, IMO. She put him in an awful situation.

[Gigei]

This is the first episode I didn't like. I yawned through most of it though there were some good parts. Leanor and Laena were both good and Rhaenyra was okay. I feel like a little happy interlude next episode would be nice. Right before all hell breaks loose, obviously.

[Winterfell is Burning]

20 minutes ago, HOTDfresher said:

That is what she should have done. But alas she might have wanted to have her 1st kid to not give the opposition any fuel to disinherit her due to being barren.

That's not a cause for her to be disinherited.

  

4 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

At least Criston's bitterness towards Rhaenyra is completely justified, IMO. She put him in an awful situation.

It would be perfectly understandable if he just bitter at the wedding, or begun to dislike her, but he went way, way beyond that.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Winterfell is Burning

[Cashless Society]

3 hours ago, Ran said:

When I first watched that scene, I said out loud, "Criston's a mad man" or something to that effect. He's so crazy with his hatred of Rhaenyra that he pushed and pushed and seemed almost pleased by getting the hell beat out of him.

It's true that Harwin's reaction can very easily be construed as his defending his honor from a lie. But his father is also right that the tension caused by the rumors, true or not, are going to lead people to question whether he can serve in an impartial manner. 

Now, why Harwin didn't go from there to formally challenge Criston Cole for besmirching his good name, I don't exactly know. I suppose one can argue that the Kingsguard, being in service of the king, can't be challenged in duels of honor because their honor is the king's. But does this then mean that Harwin could claim that Viserys had allowed his own man to besmirch his honor, and was then party to it? You end up in an odd situation.

And know I totally want see what Martin will make out of such a scenario, maybe in a Dunk and Egg novella. 

7 hours ago, RumHam said:

Still the guy is a gizzled no nonsense dragon expert right?  All the dragons are in westeros. Like did he get those burns in an unrelated battled as a mercenary in Volantis?

Maybe, but the clear shorthand implication is that he's been burned by dragon fire and also become an authority on dragons. To me this suggests he's been in kings landing for a while, and probably understands the language. 

Yes, but he'll mostly be interacting with dragons, instructing new recruits on how to train the dragons, and communicating with members of the royal family; who all speak Valyrian anyway. Since, he spends most of his days speaking Valyrian, and the crown is willing to provide him with a translator, why bother communicating in the common tongue?

I, for one, actually enjoy the choice the showrunners made. Instead of the character being nothing more than a plot device, they've gotten me to think about how this aspect of society actually functions, which creates a more believable world.

2 hours ago, slant said:

Now get what the mulvaleys flower signifies, it has nothing to do with Braavos at all, it is a reference to Alicent being out of place and far away from home.

The way Larys plucks it and sniffs it... not sure what that is supposed to indicate though. 

Alicent is now under the influence Larys.

1 hour ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Or that the king is no God and can't change thousands of years of tradition on a whim.

But a bunch of lords totally can.

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I thought he killed Joffrey to protect his secret, not because he was being taunted.

Why can't it be both?

28 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that Alicent and Criston get more hate for being unlikable douches than Daemon gets for killing his wife in cold blood so he can be free to remarry.

Television is a visual medium, the audience will have a stronger reaction to what is shown versus what is said or implied. It's very easy to forgot offscreen deaths, but seeing someone brutally assault another person to death? The audience is never going to forget that.

[Tywin's Wallet]

12 hours ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Like the episode. Really like the new adult actors. I also they are playing up Aegon as being a unserious person who will be corrupted by his mother and Cole. Though bizarrely enough they rightly treated Strong hitting Cole as this big deal yet give no explanation for why Cole got his pass over the wedding 

I would have liked to know how Crispin got his pass too. I'm assuming that Alicent pleaded mercy and claimed him as his knight and Viserys being weak he just said yes. 

[HOTDfresher]

7 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

At least Criston's bitterness towards Rhaenyra is completely justified, IMO. She put him in an awful situation.

What?! I can barely give credence to Criston hating Rhaenyra for their doomed affair being justified back in epi 5 when his heart break was fresh. But hating her to the extent of bullying her kids is too far. 

I for one do not believe that Criston was forced by Rhaenyra to have sex. He was not a virgin teen, he was a grown ass man who must have had sexual experience before taking his KG vow. He just got seduced & he wanted her. Otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to runaway with Rhaenyra in epi 5 to save his honor. In epi 5 we see that he his ready to die for so called "breaking his oath". So he could have given Rhaenyra a firm no when she seduced him as well despite the consequences. So please can this Criston being forced by Rhaenyra narrative stop. She doesn't force him for anything. When he says no to her side piece offer, she accepts it. She doesn't force him to do something that he doesn't want. 

[HOTDfresher]

17 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

That's not a cause for her to be disinherited.

 

Wouldn't her not having her own heirs give cause to the lords who are already opposed to her being future queen to refuse to accept her as their queen? I doubt anyone would let her rule at all & they would just demand Aegon II to be named as heir.  

[Gigei]

4 hours ago, EggBlue said:

ps. by the way , it's really funny how we discussed that book-Daemon might be a good father considering every one of his 7 children turn out great and here show-Daemon is even worse than Otto . so he leaves his wife's burned body there and takes his kids up on the roof where they can see it ? instead of you know.. protecting them from seeing such horror? 

 

Apparently, they cut the scene where Daemon comforts his kids. 

 

[Winterfell is Burning]

5 minutes ago, HOTDfresher said:

Wouldn't her not having her own heirs give cause to the lords who are already opposed to her being future queen to refuse to accept her as their queen? I doubt anyone would let her rule at all & they would just demand Aegon II to be named as heir.  

The people that oppose her would continue to oppose her- her not having children wouldn't be argument enough to bring a lot of new people to the other side, I think.  Like I said, in the show, the age difference between her and Aegon would count in her favor, because it's big enough to be between parent and child. She could still claim the throne, but win at least some of his supporters by saying he would inherit after her anyway (in the books, the age difference it's much smaller, so it's another discussion.)

[BlackLightning]

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

That is non-sense to me, for the reasons I pointed out many times before. If you think Dance of Dragons this is a story of good and evil, heroes and villains, then I respect your opinion, but I think you have been reading a very different series.

What were the reasons? I haven't heard them before.

In the end, there is a reason why a majority of the country -- smallfolk and lords alike -- rose for Rhaenyra.

The Blacks are not good guys but their cause is the just one...which makes them the good guys. To cheat and rob Rhaenyra of her birthright is treason, to let their Viserys rot in his chambers for over week is just twisted and disrespectful (doubly so for people who swear that they are championing honor and decency) and to let Aemond off of his leash was insane

3 hours ago, TeethGrinder said:

Why?

Their deaths were rushed and a bit trashy. It's giving the "women in refrigerators" trope...which is forgivable for Rhea but it is infuriating on account of Laena.

There's nothing wrong with them dying or the reason for their dying.

It's the how.

 

[TormundsWoman]

1 minute ago, Gigei said:

Apparently, they cut the scene where Daemon comforts his kids. 

 

Ooooh would have loved to see that!

Honestly though it doesn’t make a huge difference to me as I interpreted his taking his daughters to the roof, his own place of refuge after Leanna’s death, as a clear sign he was comforting them.

As shown in the previous scene that’s where he seems to go when he needs to think and feels safe and comfortable, more at peace than anywhere else in that mansion. But I see many didn’t think that’s what the roof represented so maybe it would have made sense not to cut it.

[nara]

14 minutes ago, HOTDfresher said:

Wouldn't her not having her own heirs give cause to the lords who are already opposed to her being future queen to refuse to accept her as their queen? I doubt anyone would let her rule at all & they would just demand Aegon II to be named as heir.  

They would probably say it’s a sign that the gods are against her and use that to justify disinheritance

[MisbornHeir]

7 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Good point.

But Larys seems to be afraid of the supposed curse of Harrenhal and has no intentions of residing and ruling there. 

To me it seemed that he said it to portray likely smallfolk chatter of what it could easily be chalked up to.

Or in other words the PR picture that can be cast upon the ‘tragedy‘ thanks to the convenience of location. He thought that out in advance.

[Ran]

2 minutes ago, TormundsWoman said:

Honestly though it doesn’t make a huge difference to me as I interpreted his taking his daughters to the roof, his own place of refuge after Leanna’s death, as a clear sign he was comforting them.

That's a really good read. I can see why they removed the hugging -- it doesn't feel like Daemon is a touchy-feely sort at all, and with this tragedy and the mood it'd set in him I can see how his inclination to withdraw would wrestle with his inclination to help his daughters. Taking them to the place that he finds safe seems like a good compromise.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

45 minutes ago, Gigei said:

Apparently, they cut the scene where Daemon comforts his kids. 

Which is especially strange given that HBO released promotional stills from that scene just a few days ago.

[MisbornHeir]

13 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Which is especially strange given that HBO released promotional stills from that scene just a few days ago.

I hope we get an extended edition version of this season with the stuff they wished to orignally include.

[sifth]

The lack of a reaction from House Velaryon, for the death of Ser. Joffrey is really bugging me. Has something major like this ever been ignored using a time skip before? If not, I think this is rather original, in terms of bad writing.