UK Politics - Closing Down Sale

[Derfel Cadarn]

When the Torygraph is beginning to admit that Brexit is a shitshow, you know things are bleak.

If we rejoined thr EU, what Brexit “benefits” would you all miss the most?

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Would it be wrong to say that Theresa May is the best PM the Tories have had since John Major? Meaning the mistake was not ousting Jonson or putting in Truss, but getting rid of May.

I think the real mistake was not managing to come up with a better candidate for PM than May, Boris or Truss in the first place.

[Luzifer's right hand]

6 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I think the real mistake was not managing to come up with a better candidate for PM than May, Boris or Truss in the first place.

Well William you clearly dropped the ball there!

[Spockydog]

When you look at the state of some of their 2019 intake, it's easy to see why they might be becoming short of candidates.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

When the Torygraph is beginning to admit that Brexit is a shitshow, you know things are bleak.

If we rejoined thr EU, what Brexit “benefits” would you all miss the most?

Duty Free at airports I think is the only one.  Other than not having to  listen to "the EU made us not be able to call bananas, bananas cos they are too bendy" type statements.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

52 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I think the real mistake was not managing to come up with a better candidate for PM than May, Boris or Truss in the first place.

Are there better candidates that could actually win and govern effectively? Serious question because those types of conservatives really don't exist anymore here in the US and the Tories seem hellbent on imitating the Republican party. 

[Which Tyler]

30 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

When you look at the state of some of their 2019 intake, it's easy to see why they might be becoming short of candidates.

Another deliberate attempt at self-sabotage

  

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Are there better candidates that could actually win and govern effectively? Serious question because those types of conservatives really don't exist anymore here in the US and the Tories seem hellbent on imitating the Republican party. 

Depends on how you define "candidate" there are plenty of better options licking around, who'd be willing to stand as tory - but they were purged from the party in 2019, and may not be willing to stand again, possibly at all, possibly just "not for a while".

[Spockydog]

Ben Wallace incoming. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

 

If we rejoined thr EU, what Brexit “benefits” would you all miss the most?

Yes but we're not at year 3000 yet, once we get there, the benefits will be obvious.

[Spockydog]

 

 

[ljkeane]

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Are there better candidates that could actually win and govern effectively? Serious question because those types of conservatives really don't exist anymore here in the US and the Tories seem hellbent on imitating the Republican party. 

Sure. I think it's more about party than candidate in the UK than the US and the Tories have a pretty inbuild advantage when it comes to winning elections anyway, especially now the SNP is taking away a number of what were reliable Labour seats. If the Tories had been selecting sane leaders over the last few years they'd have done fine. It was Cameron's hubris in trying to kill off the UKIP irritation with the Brexit vote which has sent the Tories lurching to the notjob/idiot end of things rather than any requirement for them to do it to win elections.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

45 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

Sure. I think it's more about party than candidate in the UK than the US and the Tories have a pretty inbuild advantage when it comes to winning elections anyway, especially now the SNP is taking away a number of what were reliable Labour seats. If the Tories had been selecting sane leaders over the last few years they'd have done fine. It was Cameron's hubris in trying to kill off the UKIP irritation with the Brexit vote which has sent the Tories lurching to the notjob/idiot end of things rather than any requirement for them to do it to win elections.

Are you sure that's still true? It would seem appealing to the notjob wing is precisely what one has to do to rise to power.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

When the Torygraph is beginning to admit that Brexit is a shitshow, you know things are bleak.

If we rejoined thr EU, what Brexit “benefits” would you all miss the most?

Yeah, that's one interpretation. Mine is somewhat more cynical.

It was a preferential choice, between defending Brexit and Torynomics.

Guess we found out, what the Torygraph values more than Brexit.

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Are there better candidates that could actually win and govern effectively? Serious question because those types of conservatives really don't exist anymore here in the US and the Tories seem hellbent on imitating the Republican party. 

I think there's definitely a lack of good candidates but they've been failing to pick even the 'least worst' candidate in the last couple of leadership elections (May might possibly have been the least worst option out of the field she ran against, which perhaps says more about the other candidates than her).

30 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Are you sure that's still true? It would seem appealing to the notjob wing is precisely what one has to do to rise to power.

Many Tory MPs now seem to be regretting having the membership select the leader, the majority of the MPs preferred other candidates.

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

 

 

There was never really an explanation about why Wallace didn't run in the first leadership contest this year when he was seen as one of the favourites.

[mormont]

There wasn't an explanation but there certainly were some rumours.

Besides, Ben Wallace has that same Jeremy Hunt thing, where you look at the likes of Truss and say 'well the Tories must have better quality than that on the benches, surely?' and then someone like Wallace comes along and you think you've found it: then on closer examination, you find out that 'better than Truss' can still encompass 'still pretty rank'. Excusing torture by British soldiers and supporting Erdogan's repression of minorities in Turkey are among his issues.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 minutes ago, mormont said:

There wasn't an explanation but there certainly were some rumours.

Besides, Ben Wallace has that same Jeremy Hunt thing, where you look at the likes of Truss and say 'well the Tories must have better quality than that on the benches, surely?' and then someone like Wallace comes along and you think you've found it: then on closer examination, you find out that 'better than Truss' can still encompass 'still pretty rank'. Excusing torture by British soldiers and supporting Erdogan's repression of minorities in Turkey are among his issues.

But those things were not disqualifying him in the eyes of Tory membership, or were they? So why didn't he run?

[Spockydog]

I thought he said he didn't fancy all the grief. 

[Denvek]

Ben Wallace is also, despite being the Defence Secretary, still enough of a non-entity that at least one paper illustrated the "Senior Tories want Ben Wallace to be PM" story with a photo of a Tory MP who is not Ben Wallace.

 

[mormont]

22 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

But those things were not disqualifying him in the eyes of Tory membership, or were they? So why didn't he run?

As I say, there were rumours, about his private life. I don't know too many details.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nadine-dorries-says-any-tory-mp-plot-to-oust-liz-truss-would-overturn-democracy_uk_63491f24e4b0b7f89f552eb3

 

Quote

Nadine Dorries Says Any Tory MP Plot To Oust Liz Truss Would 'Overturn Democracy'

Former culture secretary blasts "absurdly called grandee" male MPs.

 

Nadine Dorries - who has previously called for two Tory prime ministers to resign - has accused MPs plotting to oust Liz Truss of trying to “overturn democracy”.

...

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