The Anti-Targ Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 Would it be wrong to say that Theresa May is the best PM the Tories have had since John Major? Meaning the mistake was not ousting Jonson or putting in Truss, but getting rid of May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted October 16, 2022 Author Share Posted October 16, 2022 When the Torygraph is beginning to admit that Brexit is a shitshow, you know things are bleak. If we rejoined thr EU, what Brexit “benefits” would you all miss the most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said: Would it be wrong to say that Theresa May is the best PM the Tories have had since John Major? Meaning the mistake was not ousting Jonson or putting in Truss, but getting rid of May. I think the real mistake was not managing to come up with a better candidate for PM than May, Boris or Truss in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, williamjm said: I think the real mistake was not managing to come up with a better candidate for PM than May, Boris or Truss in the first place. Well William you clearly dropped the ball there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 (edited) When you look at the state of some of their 2019 intake, it's easy to see why they might be becoming short of candidates. Edited October 16, 2022 by Spockydog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said: When the Torygraph is beginning to admit that Brexit is a shitshow, you know things are bleak. If we rejoined thr EU, what Brexit “benefits” would you all miss the most? Duty Free at airports I think is the only one. Other than not having to listen to "the EU made us not be able to call bananas, bananas cos they are too bendy" type statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 52 minutes ago, williamjm said: I think the real mistake was not managing to come up with a better candidate for PM than May, Boris or Truss in the first place. Are there better candidates that could actually win and govern effectively? Serious question because those types of conservatives really don't exist anymore here in the US and the Tories seem hellbent on imitating the Republican party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Spockydog said: When you look at the state of some of their 2019 intake, it's easy to see why they might be becoming short of candidates. Another deliberate attempt at self-sabotage Just now, Tywin et al. said: Are there better candidates that could actually win and govern effectively? Serious question because those types of conservatives really don't exist anymore here in the US and the Tories seem hellbent on imitating the Republican party. Depends on how you define "candidate" there are plenty of better options licking around, who'd be willing to stand as tory - but they were purged from the party in 2019, and may not be willing to stand again, possibly at all, possibly just "not for a while". Edited October 16, 2022 by Which Tyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 Ben Wallace incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said: If we rejoined thr EU, what Brexit “benefits” would you all miss the most? Yes but we're not at year 3000 yet, once we get there, the benefits will be obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Are there better candidates that could actually win and govern effectively? Serious question because those types of conservatives really don't exist anymore here in the US and the Tories seem hellbent on imitating the Republican party. Sure. I think it's more about party than candidate in the UK than the US and the Tories have a pretty inbuild advantage when it comes to winning elections anyway, especially now the SNP is taking away a number of what were reliable Labour seats. If the Tories had been selecting sane leaders over the last few years they'd have done fine. It was Cameron's hubris in trying to kill off the UKIP irritation with the Brexit vote which has sent the Tories lurching to the notjob/idiot end of things rather than any requirement for them to do it to win elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 45 minutes ago, ljkeane said: Sure. I think it's more about party than candidate in the UK than the US and the Tories have a pretty inbuild advantage when it comes to winning elections anyway, especially now the SNP is taking away a number of what were reliable Labour seats. If the Tories had been selecting sane leaders over the last few years they'd have done fine. It was Cameron's hubris in trying to kill off the UKIP irritation with the Brexit vote which has sent the Tories lurching to the notjob/idiot end of things rather than any requirement for them to do it to win elections. Are you sure that's still true? It would seem appealing to the notjob wing is precisely what one has to do to rise to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said: When the Torygraph is beginning to admit that Brexit is a shitshow, you know things are bleak. If we rejoined thr EU, what Brexit “benefits” would you all miss the most? Yeah, that's one interpretation. Mine is somewhat more cynical. It was a preferential choice, between defending Brexit and Torynomics. Guess we found out, what the Torygraph values more than Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: Are there better candidates that could actually win and govern effectively? Serious question because those types of conservatives really don't exist anymore here in the US and the Tories seem hellbent on imitating the Republican party. I think there's definitely a lack of good candidates but they've been failing to pick even the 'least worst' candidate in the last couple of leadership elections (May might possibly have been the least worst option out of the field she ran against, which perhaps says more about the other candidates than her). 30 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Are you sure that's still true? It would seem appealing to the notjob wing is precisely what one has to do to rise to power. Many Tory MPs now seem to be regretting having the membership select the leader, the majority of the MPs preferred other candidates. 1 hour ago, Spockydog said: There was never really an explanation about why Wallace didn't run in the first leadership contest this year when he was seen as one of the favourites. Tywin et al. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 There wasn't an explanation but there certainly were some rumours. Besides, Ben Wallace has that same Jeremy Hunt thing, where you look at the likes of Truss and say 'well the Tories must have better quality than that on the benches, surely?' and then someone like Wallace comes along and you think you've found it: then on closer examination, you find out that 'better than Truss' can still encompass 'still pretty rank'. Excusing torture by British soldiers and supporting Erdogan's repression of minorities in Turkey are among his issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, mormont said: There wasn't an explanation but there certainly were some rumours. Besides, Ben Wallace has that same Jeremy Hunt thing, where you look at the likes of Truss and say 'well the Tories must have better quality than that on the benches, surely?' and then someone like Wallace comes along and you think you've found it: then on closer examination, you find out that 'better than Truss' can still encompass 'still pretty rank'. Excusing torture by British soldiers and supporting Erdogan's repression of minorities in Turkey are among his issues. But those things were not disqualifying him in the eyes of Tory membership, or were they? So why didn't he run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 I thought he said he didn't fancy all the grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denvek Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 Ben Wallace is also, despite being the Defence Secretary, still enough of a non-entity that at least one paper illustrated the "Senior Tories want Ben Wallace to be PM" story with a photo of a Tory MP who is not Ben Wallace. Mindwalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 22 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: But those things were not disqualifying him in the eyes of Tory membership, or were they? So why didn't he run? As I say, there were rumours, about his private life. I don't know too many details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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