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[Spoilers] Episode 107 Discussion


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2 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

If Laenor returns later on in the show, then Rhaenyra and Daemon's sons will be denounced as bastards.  It makes no sense for Laenor to return or reappear in any way.  Actually, it would have made more sense for Daemon to have quietly killed him without Rhaenyra's connivance.  

I wish I knew why Daemon was giggling at his wife's funeral and why none of the Velaryons objected or tried to kill him for the insult to Laena.  And why he seems to have no further interest in his daughters.

They can't be bastards because Rhaenyra and Daemon are married. Bigamy is something the Targaryens are exceptions to even if the sept hates it. This would make Aenys a bastard and the entire Royal Line of Aegon the Conqueror as they're through Visenya.

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12 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I claim that it's "bad writing" and "makes no sense" because up to this point, Laenor wasn't written as someone who would make such a drastic decision. A few minutes ago Laenor said that he loved "his children", and that he wanted to commit more to Rhaenrya's cause. Using your own words, he had never been portrayed as someone "very selfish".

Except that the last episode revolved around him trying to run away of any responsibility whatsoever, the wise sailor hidind when the storm gathers and all that... He was commited to leave his family and just fuck off to the disputed lands.

Now finally he's been given an out and he has taken it. There's nothing contradictory here. The only thing there is whether we agree with the decision or not but as it stands it's reasonable.

 

16 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

If we had seen Corlys privately belittling him because if his inability to produce a legitimate son, if we had seen Rhaenys telling him that she was ashamed of him, if we had seen him distant from the kids and struggling to treat them as their own, if we had seen that he was really in love with Qarl and he was being forced to separate from him... then I may still say I don't like their choice, but I wouldn't say it's badly written.

Why would we need all that?

We are told and we see that he's in an awkward situation he doesn't really want to be in. You don't only need trauma for wanting a fresh start, what an odd take. As far as he's concerned, the children are going to be good and if he's alive when the war starts, that's a huge if, he'll be too far and too removed to do anything and more than a decade will have passed.

 

 

20 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Well, we'll have to see how they justify a badly wounded Sunfyre reuniting with Aegon. It's something they should address then. I honestly do not have much hopes in them doing so.

Aegon ordering the bbeast to find him, or the beast not being too far from him, tho i also think they'll ignore it cause frankly it's not relevant.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Bigamy is something the Targaryens are exceptions to even if the sept hates it.

They certainly are not. Not since Maegor.

I mean this should be obvious, the whole point of Laenor faking his death is so Rhaenyra and Daemon can marry, it's literally stated. They couldn't do polygamy. 

 

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6 hours ago, nara said:

Daemon giggling was stupid and unnecessary

May have been different from  a giggle. First glance it seemed to be a reaction towards the eulogy of pure blood lines. 
or  he’s just no Debbie-Downer-Deamon and he sees the funny in fun-eral. Wokka wokka.

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1 hour ago, Mithras said:

Women are so 20th century. We live in the age of gays now. You can't kill your gay characters, especially if they are black. How the show handled Rhea and Laena would have caused a feminist outrage (and deservedly so) if we still lived in the 20th century.

In public? No. It would have been a huge scandal and there would be calls to set aside each other.

But their children would not be bastards.

1 hour ago, Mithras said:

Women are so 20th century. We live in the age of gays now. You can't kill your gay characters, especially if they are black. How the show handled Rhea and Laena would have caused a feminist outrage (and deservedly so) if we still lived in the 20th century.

They killed Joffrey literally two episodes ago.

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11 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

May have been different from  a giggle. First glance it seemed to be a reaction towards the eulogy of pure blood lines. 
or  he’s just no Debbie-Downer-Deamon and he sees the funny in fun-eral. Wokka wokka.

It was, Vaemond was just using his niece's funeral to call his nephews bastards. Which it's funny ngl.

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1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said:

They killed Joffrey literally two episodes ago.

-Interior dungeon. A Troll pumps the bellows. Heat and flames rise from the furnace.

:Troll: “Was Joffrey gay? Or just gay for pay?! Just another, two-faced,gold digging, man whore, that Hollywood attempts to sell as a real gay-life story in order to exploit homosexuality?! Enough with this fantasy! Where’s the realism!”  :) 

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41 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I claim that it's "bad writing" and "makes no sense" because up to this point, Laenor wasn't written as someone who would make such a drastic decision. A few minutes ago Laenor said that he loved "his children", and that he wanted to commit more to Rhaenrya's cause. Using your own words, he had never been portrayed as someone "very selfish".

Yes he was motivated having done the wrong thing by Rhaenyra and trying to turn that around for her and the children, only for Rhaenyra to obviously decide "well actually the best thing you could do for me and everyone is to die." So he does, the character motivation is constant.

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5 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Yes he was motivated having done the wrong thing by Rhaenyra and trying to turn that around for her and the children, only for Rhaenyra to obviously decide "well actually the best thing you could do for me and everyone is to die." So he does, the character motivation is constant.

Yep. Sadly, I would have preferred to have THAT conversation versus the fake out.

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9 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Rhaenyra and trying to turn that around for her and the children,

I agree. I think he had a Mayhaps wile he was reaffirming his wife. It would be heart crushing if he was telling her he would be willing to die so she could live a stronger life. 
As if his guilt over his life choices were a sin that requires penance 

?Laenor: Mayhaps I love my children to much.

Edited by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe
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24 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I would enjoy it if Daeron showed up next season with black hair and looking a little like Cole.

And he befriends Tessarion in How To Train Your Dragon style?

Spoiler

Daeron is said to be mentioned in this season, later on.

Other than that, I've seen a comment that the mistakes made in this episode would've been career-ending for DnD, but I disagree. People crucified them for: Arya killing the NK, Daenerys' madness and death, dumping Jaime character arc, and the stupidity of Varys, Euron and especially Tyrion. Other mistakes had been made, sure, but these were the big factors. Later on fans of course analised every bit and pointed out everything, but this is what made S8 crumble. S7 also.

I liked this episode the most. But that doesn't mean I don't demand a good solution about Addam and Seasmoke later on. I like that the show surprised me with Laenor, I didn't very much like the way it did, but it's fine, have it your way HBO, you made me like him much more than I ever tought I would anyway.

One thing I haven't mentioned in previous threads (because they are becoming overwhelming to read, and thus I don't follow and comment on them) is how ugly Vhagar is. She is supposed to be old, not ugly. We have ugly for Sheepstealer.

Random tought: I don't like how Helaena's characteristics are so far: weird, Targaryen, dragonrider.

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Wow ten pages already lol. 

The first ten minutes was soo cool. The colours came out. Five dragons on screen at once. Daemon delivering the slug line to Otto, then Otto kicking Aegon. Viserys calling Alicent Aemma... all very satisfying. 
Was nice to see Aemond tracking Vaghar flying after the funeral... they are making it interesting for those who know the story. It is funny how they keep using birds to show the scale of the dragons. Kid just shifted the balance of power. What a move haha. 
Im really liking the Velaryons. All of them are rock solid. 
Interpreting the stills can be misleading, many of them are not even in the show, and the expressions are different. 
I am really liking the changes they made to the story. Think letting Laenor and Qarl live is a big miscalculation that will come back to bite Rhaenyra and Daemon though. 

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Regarding Daemon and the eulogy, he's a Targaryen supremacist who laughed at the idea of  coveting this salt water blood and it not thinning and what not, it's funny to him because the salt water blood is weak and nothing to be proud of compared to the fire blood of the dragon, and to him it's very clear Laena was dragon blooded anyway.

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5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think the reason Laenor/Seasmoke feels like such a huge blunder is because of how meticulous HOTD has been so far in sticking to the lore.

I want to see where they go with this. I thought it was an interesting choice. Would be funny if Laenor comes back and Seasmoke is returns to him, after shaking off and burning Addam or whichever dragonseed claims him. 

5 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I found it amusing how they low keyed the "greens" in the dialogue in this episode. This is the first mention of one of the two monikers. Up until now we had only the visual ques. 

At least they got it out. But... Halaena's mumbling had the Greens and Blacks too...

6 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

It was going great until the terrible, terrible ending. What a bunch of cowards.  He's going to let his family and everyone that loves him think he's dead, and also abandon his dragon too? Just pathetic.

Yeah thought the same thing... why inflict that pain on his parents, and what about his dragon? 

7 hours ago, nara said:

It gave me more respect for the boy and was reminiscent of Harry Potter first flying his broom.

Lol, for me it was like Draco Malfoy managed to fly the hippogriff :D  

6 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The dragon ride looked great, but it did really feel like Harry Potter. Aemond looks like a miniature Lucius Malfoy. 

Same! 

The comments about ROP are hilarious! 

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1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

They can't be bastards because Rhaenyra and Daemon are married. Bigamy is something the Targaryens are exceptions to even if the sept hates it. This would make Aenys a bastard and the entire Royal Line of Aegon the Conqueror as they're through Visenya.

Hopefully...I thought Targaryen bigamy had been outlawed after Maegor.

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4 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Well, the fact that all of the children were able to get out of bed and go traipsing off around the castle (in Aemond's case, the entire island) as a problem that was addressed by Viserys. Criston Cole tried to hand wave it away but...at the end of the day, there are way too many armed guards around for them to only show up when kids start screaming bloody murder.

 

I liked Alicent's meltdown, and I loved the way that they handled the fight and the lead-up to it. Aemond should have asked for leave to claim Vhagar as Laena once did. Taking Vhagar without asking would have always had consequences. I like how they are giving the Targaryen girls a bigger role. Daemon is an asshole (but then again...as Rhaenys points, Daemon is Daemon) for being silent on the matter. His nonchalant silence about the matter came off as a tacit agreement with Aemond's claiming of Vhagar...which pits him against his daughter Rhaena.

I also like how Jacaerys immediately assumed responsibility and took charge of the situation. I also thought it was super sweet that Baela and Rhaena immediately sought out Jace for help.

I am absolutely in love with every single Corlys-Rhaenys scene that appears on screen. It is to die for. Love their chemistry. And I love how the actors have aged themselves in the ten year gap. There is limited makeup on Steve Toussaint and Eve Best but they definitely acted like they were ten years older. Particularly Eve Best. It's always incredible to me that actors can portray different ages.

 

That said, I am still very annoyed that they were so obvious about Jacaerys and Lucerys not being Velaryon. @Lord Varys was right: it would have been better if they had made Harwin, Lyonel and Larys (and soon Alys Rivers) black as well.

Rather than making the Strongs Black they should have just made Baela and Rhaena lightskin imo. Jace and Luke look about right to me for being 1/4th Black. But Baela and Rhaena look like they could be my sisters and I have two African parents. 
 

A lot of white people for some reason assume that anybody with even a tiny bit of Black ancestry will look 100% like us. It would have been a strong visual indicator to show the audience that somebody who’s 1/4th Black can usually pass pretty easily and it’s the dark hair that gives the Strong boys away. 

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