[Spoilers] Episode 107 Discussion

[butterweedstrover]

The takes are filtering in: https://slate.com/culture/2022/10/house-of-the-dragon-episode-7-alicent-worst.html 

I love how people enjoy shallow characterization, excising any nuance to Alicent’s character to make it easier to root for Rhaenyra.
 

Oh, and make the screens darker please, they’re too bright. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by butterweedstrover

[Stannis is the man....nis]

7 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Rhaenyra and the blacks are pure and awesome. 
 

Alicent and the greens are bitter and awful. 
 

God this show’s bias is sickening.

Though ironically Aegon is the only character that isn’t a complete ahole right now 

[zajaz]

So with Laenor suriving (despite F&B making it quite clear that, yes, he did die), do you guys think there is a possibility that the writers will have Daemon surviving his fight with Aemond and running away with Nettles? If so...

[nara]

They might replace Addam with Laenor returning.

[Colonel Green]

16 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yep, Laenor kinda forgot that he has a dragon.

He didn't forget he has a dragon, he left his dragon behind, because obviously he can't take Seasmoke with him.

19 minutes ago, RumHam said:

But he did order Laenor's death. This doesn't exactly make him less evil. 

No he didn't. He enlisted Ser Qarl to fake Laenor's death with him.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Colonel Green

[zajaz]

Also, the bias towards the Blacks is, if anything, GRRM's fault. Remember the laughable 11-year old seasoned commander Benjicot Blackwood?

Edited October 3, 2022 by zajaz

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Though ironically Aegon is the only character that isn’t a complete ahole right now 

Really? Rhaenyra’s children are perfect. 
Aemond gets his eye cut out because he is about to murder someone. 
 

And Daemon and Rhaenyra, what saints. Helping Leanor and his gay lover live happily ever after. 
 

Aegon is just being characterized in a way to make Alicent look worse, not make the greens more sympathetic.

 

[miyuki]

Hmm let's see that fight

1. Rhaena attacks Aemond

2. Baela attacks Aemond

3. Jace attacks Aemond

4. Luke attacks Aemond

5. All four of them attack him at once and start pummeling him on the ground

6. Aemond fights them off

7. Picks up a rock and threatens them

8. Lowers the rock because he wasn't actually going to hit Luke.

9. Jace pulls a knife to stab him

10. Aemond finally uses the rock to hit Jace after Jace slashes at him with a knif

11. Jace throws sand in Aemon'd eyes

12. Luke stabs him in the face

They completely vindicated Aemond. Every level of escalation was done by the blacks

[teej6]

18 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I greatly enjoyed the aftermath scene in the hall with both Rhaenyra and Alicent trying to get the upper hand. It was pretty much a prelude to the real Dance, and the shot at the end with the battle lines clearly drawn as Viserys walked away enforced that. There was some significance there with Rhaenyra staring at Aegon’s Dagger beyond just the threat of the steel, with the fire in the background, but I’m not sure exactly what.

The focus on Rhaenyra’s blood and Aegon’s dagger (if that was Aegon’s dagger) could  imply that Rhaenyra’s blood will rule and eventually fulfill “the prince that was promised” prophecy.

Edited October 3, 2022 by teej6

[RumHam]

Just now, Colonel Green said:

Er, no he didn't. He enlisted Ser Qarl to fake Laenor's death with him.

Oh, I thought he offered to pay he'd pay Quarl for "a quick death with witnesses" and the implication was that it was Laenors death he wanted. He came off so sinister in that exchange. 

[butterweedstrover]

3 minutes ago, miyuki said:

Hmm let's see that fight

1. Rhaena attacks Aemond

2. Baela attacks Aemond

3. Jace attacks Aemond

4. Luke attacks Aemond

5. All four of them attack him at once and start pummeling him on the ground

6. Aemond fights them off

7. Picks up a rock and threatens them

8. Lowers the rock because he wasn't actually going to hit Luke.

9. Jace pulls a knife to stab him

10. Aemond finally uses the rock to hit Jace after Jace slashes at him with a knif

11. Jace throws sand in Aemon'd eyes

12. Luke stabs him in the face

They completely vindicated Aemond. Every level of escalation was done by the blacks

8. He was going to kill Luke

[Stannis is the man....nis]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Really? Rhaenyra’s children are perfect. 
Aemond gets his eye cut out because he is about to murder someone. 
 

And Daemon and Rhaenyra, what saints. Helping Leanor and his gay lover live happily ever after. 
 

Aegon is just being characterized in a way to make Alicent look worse, not make the greens more sympathetic.

 

Okay fair enough on the cousins I was thinking more in terms of him so far verses Daemon, Rhaenyra, along with his his mother, father, and brother 

[C.T. Phipps]

4 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Really? Rhaenyra’s children are perfect. 
Aemond gets his eye cut out because he is about to murder someone.

And Daemon and Rhaenyra, what saints. Helping Leanor and his gay lover live happily ever after.

Aegon is just being characterized in a way to make Alicent look worse, not make the greens more sympathetic.

Didn't Laenor kill his lover and burn his body?

[DMC]

Well damn.  I did not expect to be shocked by an ending.  At least not like that.  Kudos.

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Didn't Laenor kill his lover and burn his body?

What, when? 
 

Qarl and Leanor both lived. Who else are you talking about?

[Colonel Green]

3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Oh, I thought he offered to pay he'd pay Quarl for "a quick death with witnesses" and the implication was that it was Laenors death he wanted. He came off so sinister in that exchange. 

It's designed to mislead the audience.

3 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Didn't Laenor kill his lover and burn his body?

Did you not see Laenor getting into the boat at the end?

[RumHam]

7 minutes ago, nara said:

They might replace Addam with Laenor returning.

I think it's far easier to invent a dragon or ignore the rule. All the dragon lore stuff is so unclear it's not really a problem. Maybe they consider themselves "riderless" if they don't see their rider for years. You could even assume Laenor died happily in Myr or whatever in between. 

Addam's whole thing is that he's loyal, and if Laenor returns he should be pissed. 

[Rockroi]

I think the scene at the Driftstone Chair - with Viserys and the court - was one of the best scenes in ASoIaF.  It was tense and overwhelming.  There was no telling what could have happened.  

Anyway...

What I liked:

Fire and Blood... but really mostly Blood:  So, this week was probably the most violent episode of ASoIaF where nobody actually died.  This episode showed just how on the edge the realm is with the Greens and the Blacks and how doomed Viserys' dream of a united House is.  The scenes with the children were exceptional and how that brought about the next step in this conflict.  Aemon (more on him later) and his fight with his ... cousins... was the spark that ignited this conflict.  And while we saw the fire in Vaghar's maw and in the Driftstone throne-room, ultimately, we saw that blood is what will fight this war.  I loved how the show found all the ways to exemplify this- from the King and Daemon to Aemon's eye to the the Princess' bastards to the words of House Valyerion spoken at Laena's funeral.... to the marriage at the end.  And on and on it goes.  This episode saw the blood and what it does to people.

Suffer the Little Chidlren:  This episode dealt a lot with the feelings of the children- the girls who lost their mother to the other son breaking into tears when he knows that if he takes Driftmark it "means everyone is dead..."  to the fight in the catacombs... to Aegon grabbing himself a dragon - this episode more than any other showed the weight put on these children when they are children.  This was a fantastic story-telling device; prior to this the sins of the parents were nearly always put on adults (the exception being Arya and the other Stark kids).  Here we saw the weight of rule put on Aegon, Aemon, Daemon's children and the Strong bastards.  This was fantastic story-telling and excellent representation. 

But also when push came to shove, Aegon said what we were all thinking when confronted by his father - where did we hear this accusation that the children are bastards?  Our own eyes.  This was a great look into the seriousness of Aegon and how, even with the knowledge that he is a little shit, he knows what is true and how to face a King.  

Aemon One Eye and the Price of a Dragon: Aemon One-Eye is an absolute bad-ass and this chapter showed how he started t get this way.  For starters, he gets the badest dragon in the 7 Kingdoms.  The scenes with Aemon and Vaghar are spectacular; we saw the ancient spectacle of the oldest dragon in existence buttressed against the small prince.  And how this prince rose to the occasion and claimed his dragon. As Hightower put it, he won Vaghar to their cause.  It was incredible.  

Then he has a street fight with two princes and tow princesses and holds his own.  

And when the smoke cleared, as he said it was a fair exchange- losing an eye to gain a dragon.  

Badass.  

Shakespeare in the Seven Kingdoms: This was the most eloquently written episode of the season; it felt very Shakespearian - heavy dialog, flowery yet, amazingly to the point  This was a deeply complicated episode because not much happened, but the wants, desires, fears and ambitions of the episode were on display I think the choice to have the most flowery and complex dialog was really inspired.  It fit with the tragedy of what was going on. 

The Sides of a Civil War: The scene where they all piece over what was going on with Aemon's eye- what it meant, what to do, and then the reality of the crisis of somebody, at long last, saying what everyone was thinking.  Cut to Alisent going all in- she demands her son's wound be paid back and its refused.  She then takes up the knife herself.  And I recall thinking- when I first saw the scene as part of the coming attractions I remember thinking "That's stupid; why would the Queen pull outa  knife" and then thinking "Oh its just there to show us the Queen is nuts."  

But that scene was so much more.  It showed the absolute and irretractable conflict here- that the realm will chose between Aegon and Rhaenarya.  That the realm is already choosing sides; that the pieces are on the board and are in motion.  That some will win and everyone else will lose it all.  And the King is utterly powerless to stop it.  This is a powder keg and its already going off; the fuse is not just lit, the explosion is in progress and nothing can stop it.  

The scene at the Driftsone Chair was intense in that it explained all the sides; all the anger and emotions of each side; the truth of the eventual heirs being bastards; the King's impotence; the Queen's deep anger; and how intractable the Princess is.  She will stand with her children and this is not going to end until heads are on pikes.  Even Coryn Valerion was silent; the Queen even shot an accusation about the King-consort's sexuality- and it did not raise even an eyebrow. 

Anything could have happened and the most important thing did: that as soon as Viserys is dead, the knives will come out and the realm is going to burn.  And nobody is strong enough to do anything about it but prepare.

This was as good an episode as there has ever been in ASoIaFand that scene was its lynchpin.  

I have nothing I am on the fence about and there was nothing wrong it it.  

The ending scene was nice because it showed that the Princess is not a maniac - she and Daemon obviously allowed him to escape-- they said the sea was an escape and he took it.  That was a nice touch.  

This show is insane,  Its much better than it has any right to be.  

And nothing has actually happened- what I mean by that is that few people have died in the name of the ultimate conflict; not much dragon roasting; not much war.  Just exceptional story telling done through the medium of well developed characters.  

This is the night that I would say that House of the Dragon won the right to have the fans of GoT come back and judge it on its own merits.  I can't think of higher praise than that.  

[The Bard of Banefort]

They really chickened out by not having Rhaenyra plot Laenor's death. Again, it's weird how different the characterization is post-time gap. After spending five episodes trying to establish that Rhaenyra has the potential to be a terrible person, they're now whitewashing her. 

The dragon ride looked great, but it did really feel like Harry Potter. Aemond looks like a miniature Lucius Malfoy. 

[RumHam]

Just now, Colonel Green said:

It's designed to mislead the audience.

ooooh, is that what the neck breaking of the random guard was about? A replacement body? I did not get that Daemon was in on it. I took his "set him free" as "kill him." I don't have a great opinion of show daemon. That giggle at the funeral was terrible.