[Spoilers] Episode 107 Discussion

[miyuki]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

They really chickened out by not having Rhaenyra plot Laenor's death. Again, it's weird how different the characterization is post-time gap. After spending five episodes trying to establish that Rhaenyra has the potential to be a terrible person, they're now whitewashing her. 

The dragon ride looked great, but it did really feel like Harry Potter. Aemond looks like a miniature Lucius Malfoy. 

I would assume it was done to avoid criticism of killing off too many gay characters.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Wait, why did Daeom pay Qarl if Daemon did the killing? Wouldn't they have just consulted Laenor first and he would have convinced Qarl?

[C.T. Phipps]

5 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

What, when? 

Qarl and Leanor both lived. Who else are you talking about?

Sorry, the darkness of the episode confused me. I thought Qarl died while Laenor lived.

[nara]

7 minutes ago, miyuki said:

Hmm let's see that fight

1. Rhaena attacks Aemond

2. Baela attacks Aemond

3. Jace attacks Aemond

4. Luke attacks Aemond

5. All four of them attack him at once and start pummeling him on the ground

6. Aemond fights them off

7. Picks up a rock and threatens them

8. Lowers the rock because he wasn't actually going to hit Luke.

9. Jace pulls a knife to stab him

10. Aemond finally uses the rock to hit Jace after Jace slashes at him with a knif

11. Jace throws sand in Aemon'd eyes

12. Luke stabs him in the face

They completely vindicated Aemond. Every level of escalation was done by the blacks

You missed the part about Aemond threatening to have his dragon burn them. Not a big deal for most people but Vhagar just burned the girls’ mother so that was pretty vicious.

I do think the Blacks children and portrayed more favorably in general, but it makes sense. Luke and Jace have not been taught to hate their uncles, while Aemond and Aegon have. Naturally the younger ones are not as viscous. They did bully Aemond in the previous episode, but I got the sense that they learned that from Aegon, not their mother. 

 

[RumHam]

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Wait, why did Daeom pay Qarl if Daemon did the killing? Wouldn't they have just consulted Laenor first and he would have convinced Qarl?

Yeah, I'm not sold on this "Daemon and Rhaenyra sent them to live happily ever after" thing. That's just not how it was played. Does Laenor look thrilled at the end? 

Edited October 3, 2022 by RumHam
words

[The Bard of Banefort]

17 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

He didn't forget he has a dragon, he left his dragon behind, because obviously he can't take Seasmoke with him.

No he didn't. He enlisted Ser Qarl to fake Laenor's death with him.

As we saw with Dany, the dragons go looking for their masters.

[butterweedstrover]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Wait, why did Daeom pay Qarl if Daemon did the killing? Wouldn't they have just consulted Laenor first and he would have convinced Qarl?

So they can live comfortably. Because Daemon and Rhaenyra are saints.

[teej6]

Just now, The Bard of Banefort said:

Wait, why did Daeom pay Qarl if Daemon did the killing? Wouldn't they have just consulted Laenor first and he would have convinced Qarl?

Yeah that made no sense. I stopped looking for consistency in the show. It did however seem to me that they were implying that Daemon was in on the “fake your murder and run away” plot

[Corvinus85]

17 minutes ago, nara said:

They might replace Addam with Laenor returning.

If that is the case, then Corlys's line about history remembering names not blood becomes meaningless. I would think that line pretty much told us what sort of man Corlys is and what he will do with regards to his legacy and succession. 

[Winterfell is Burning]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

They really chickened out by not having Rhaenyra plot Laenor's death. Again, it's weird how different the characterization is post-time gap. After spending five episodes trying to establish that Rhaenyra has the potential to be a terrible person, they're now whitewashing her.

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a point of contention in the writing staff, which might explain the different takes.

  

3 minutes ago, miyuki said:

I would assume it was done to avoid criticism of killing off too many gay characters.

Then they're being cowards. It's a show that killed many characters already and will kill many more, there's no reason why gays have to be exempt from it, and if they feel like they need more gay characters, it's easily enough to make some of the other characters gay or bi- for most of them, it wouldn't require too much of a retcon or be out of character.

[C.T. Phipps]

2 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Then they're being cowards. It's a show that killed many characters already and will kill many more, there's no reason why gays have to be exempt from it, and if they feel like they need more gay characters, it's easily enough to make some of the other characters gay or bi- for most of them, it wouldn't require too much of a retcon or be out of character.

Actually, I'd state that Laenor and Laena both died far too f-ing soon in the show and letting him fake his death is fine.

Because at least its a twist.

[RumHam]

I meant to say I love that they addressed the succession of Driftmark even though "who will sit the driftwood throne?" was not a question anyone in the audience was asking.  

I like the show more when they slow things down like this. I'd have loved to get a Kingsguard meeting after they just had to restrain one of their own. But I guess the time jump won't allow for it. 

[zajaz]

21 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

They really chickened out by not having Rhaenyra plot Laenor's death. Again, it's weird how different the characterization is post-time gap. After spending five episodes trying to establish that Rhaenyra has the potential to be a terrible person, they're now whitewashing her.. 

Alicent is the opposite. I said it last week, and I'll say it again: Olivia Cooke is playing Alicent 5/5 stars, just like I imagined her to be in F&B... but it's hard for me to see her as being the same person as her younger whitewashed version played by Emily Carey.

They really should have credited them as:

Alicent Hightower (played by Olivia Cooke)

Alisaint Hightower (played by Emily Carey).

[nara]

Forgot to mention earlier…sometime between Rhaenyra suggesting Jace marry Helaena and now, Alicent overcame her dislike of strange Targaryen customs enough to betroth Aegon to Helaena. 
 

Someone  mentioned that Alicent is beginning to show signs of madness in the episode. Honestly, I think her reaction to her son’s eye being gouged out is pretty natural. However, I wonder if Daemon giggling is just another sign of his impending madness. Related, “an eye for an eye” is foreshadowing “a son for a son”, which I find interesting.

Separately, did Helaena end up killing that spider? I couldn’t tell what she did.

 

[RumHam]

4 minutes ago, nara said:

Separately, did Helaena end up killing that spider? I couldn’t tell what she did.

I thought she trapped it, but I do have to go back and listen to what she was saying. I thought maybe a prophecy about Varys, but who knows.

They can't have her dreams be actually useful to the greens, so I assume most will hint at Game of Thrones or Dunk and Egg or other stuff. I really hope she comes into her own when she gets Dreamfyre though, and just wants nothing to do with the game of thrones or her brother. 

[DMC]

Yeesh, the whining here is laughable.  Do Rhaenyra and Daemon come off as "good" for exiling Laenor and faking his death - immediately after the showrunners deliver a scene where Laenor offers to be a better husband?  No!  Not in the slightest.  But it's interesting -- and, more importantly for this viewer, new.  Laenor willingly doing that obviously isn't in the books...but it doesn't necessarily contradict the books either.

What will be interesting is how/if they deal with Seasmoke.  And more importantly, maybe they dealt with this in the after show shit but certainly not in what I saw, whether Corlys and Rhaenys are aware and how they'll feel about it.  THOSE are the interesting things for devotees.  Not how much this may or may not "whitewash" certain characters - who, btw, weren't very "colored" to begin with.  Get the fuck over yourselves.

[Minsc]

9 minutes ago, nara said:

Someone  mentioned that Alicent is beginning to show signs of madness in the episode. Honestly, I think her reaction to her son’s eye being gouged out is pretty natural.

Yeah, Rhaenyra wanted an already maimed child tortured for speaking the truth is hardly better.  Does anyone not think that if the shoe was on the other foot that Rhaenyra wouldn't be making the same demand?

[C.T. Phipps]

33 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

They really chickened out by not having Rhaenyra plot Laenor's death. Again, it's weird how different the characterization is post-time gap. After spending five episodes trying to establish that Rhaenyra has the potential to be a terrible person, they're now whitewashing her.

I think the show has consistently shown Rhaenyra to be a blithe spirit and not remotely a bad person.

[Colonel Green]

28 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

As we saw with Dany, the dragons go looking for their masters.

A dragon went looking for its master. That's far from establishing it as a universal constant.

[Colonel Green]

1 minute ago, Minsc said:

Yeah, Rhaenyra wanted an already maimed child tortured for speaking the truth is hardly better.

Rhaenyra didn't ask for that in the show.  Being questioned "sharply" is implicitly what Viserys did afterward, by speaking strictly; nobody reacts like she was asking for him to be tortured.