Tyrosh Lannister Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 He offered to buy valyrian steel swords from impoverished houses but he was refused. Why not go to the free cities and buy them ? He went to Lys on one of his trips... Why not buy a weapon from there? Or go to Qohor or the other free cities ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring3r Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 11 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: He offered to buy valyrian steel swords from impoverished houses but he was refused. Why not go to the free cities and buy them ? He went to Lys on one of his trips... Why not buy a weapon from there? Or go to Qohor or the other free cities ? 10 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: I'd say bad writing but no, the likelier answer is world building wasn't done at the time. You may feel many things AFFC onwards have an oddness to them, as if they were only thought about and added much later than previous things. Could be world-building issues, although I think it's more likely that the reasons are present in the text. With Valyrian steel being so sought after, and the Free Cities being former vassal/orbit states of Valyria, they may be extremely hesitant to let any of that stuff leave their lands. If impoverished Westerosi houses won't even give it up, why would rich lords across the sea? So that's one possibility. Or, maybe the prices across the narrow sea were simply much higher than in Westeros, which leads into the second possibility.... In my opinion, the more likely option is that House Lannister, having lent massive amounts of money to the Crown to essentially hide the national debt, doesn't actually have any money to send across the narrow sea. They're completely dependent on the Crown repaying all those loans, and thus cannot really do commerce with nations who are not involved in the debt/loan scheme that has overtaken the finances of Westeros. While they can shuffle some money around in Westeros, or obtain promises of payment from the Crown, they can't pull the same nonsense elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 20 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: Or go to Qohor or the other free cities ? Qohor seems to be quite jealous of their steel and forging. Was a maester who tried to investigate not whipped and then driven from the city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Essosi nobles and other rich men certainely value valyrian steel as much as Westerosi nobles do. To them having a valyrian sword or weapon must be a priceless prestigious symbol too, and they most likely aren't going to sell it easily either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 23 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: Their suplly would be more than the Westerosi though, and since Tobho Mott can rework it, there must be a market for it, at least in the free cities. Lannisters not having much gold left is entirely possible, but Tywin must've been trying to buy out Valyrian Steel long before he started lending money to Robert or at least long before the debt has become so huge. On 10/3/2022 at 5:28 PM, Ring3r said: In my opinion, the more likely option is that House Lannister, having lent massive amounts of money to the Crown to essentially hide the national debt, doesn't actually have any money to send across the narrow sea. They're completely dependent on the Crown repaying all those loans, and thus cannot really do commerce with nations who are not involved in the debt/loan scheme that has overtaken the finances of Westeros. While they can shuffle some money around in Westeros, or obtain promises of payment from the Crown, they can't pull the same nonsense elsewhere. GRRM already addressed years ago for the AWOIAF book: https://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/91739669545/unlike-whats-been-said-in-the-tv-show-the-mines The Lannisters have gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Why doesnt Bezos buy the Mona Lisa? Its not even about not finding a For Sale sign (although it mainly is) Tywins not Bezos. Sure hes rich, but theyre all rich. Bran was sparkling when he took his stroll through the park, Cat hands Brienne like a million dollars without really thinking about it. Compared to all these vulture lords hoarding their 10,000 year old treasures are the ones who actually live in Essos and do "business" in the free cities Quote "The Green Grace will accomplish nothing. She may be conspiring with the Yunkai'i even as we sit here. Arrangements, did you say? Make arrangements? What sort of arrangements?" "Ransom," said Ser Barristan. "Each man's weight in gold." "The Wise Masters do not need our gold, ser," said Marselen. "They are richer than your Westerosi lords, every one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 The fact that he couldn't find anyone willing to see it in Westeros is silly enough, though taking the whole world into account opens up a whole lot of other plot holes. Every man/woman has their price and Tywin could afford to pay it 5 times over. The fact that no one in the entire country was willing or desperate enough to sell him a sword, is pretty insane, when you really think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 On 10/5/2022 at 1:29 PM, sifth said: The fact that he couldn't find anyone willing to see it in Westeros is silly enough, though taking the whole world into account opens up a whole lot of other plot holes. Every man/woman has their price and Tywin could afford to pay it 5 times over. The fact that no one in the entire country was willing or desperate enough to sell him a sword, is pretty insane, when you really think about it. To be fair, he's also a dick, so there might well be a personal aspect to the refusal of sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 Probably because GRRM wanted it this way. To have this rich, but wanting man. Whatever. Now we have to explain how it could happen. I imagine there is no Valyrian steel for sale in shops. Any noble lord who has a sword is not willing to depart with it. For any price. This is obvious, at least in Westeros. I imagine the steel change owner when one is killed and the victor collects the sword. Now if the winner is another lord or someone who cares for the sword, we are still to the same point. If the winner is a bandit, or someone only interested in money, he will sell it. So we have to assume it didn't happen in the time Tywin was seeking for a sword. Men like Tobho Mott are handy when the new owner gets a sword not the kind of his preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted October 8, 2022 Author Share Posted October 8, 2022 On 10/4/2022 at 5:09 PM, Craving Peaches said: Qohor seems to be quite jealous of their steel and forging. Was a maester who tried to investigate not whipped and then driven from the city? They're fine with selling v steel. They just want the secret of reforging it to remain a secret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted October 8, 2022 Author Share Posted October 8, 2022 23 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said: Probably because GRRM wanted it this way. To have this rich, but wanting man. Whatever. Now we have to explain how it could happen. I imagine there is no Valyrian steel for sale in shops. Any noble lord who has a sword is not willing to depart with it. For any price. This is obvious, at least in Westeros. I imagine the steel change owner when one is killed and the victor collects the sword. Now if the winner is another lord or someone who cares for the sword, we are still to the same point. If the winner is a bandit, or someone only interested in money, he will sell it. So we have to assume it didn't happen in the time Tywin was seeking for a sword. Men like Tobho Mott are handy when the new owner gets a sword not the kind of his preference. Kinda interesting that tobho Mott is involved in blood magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: Kinda interesting that tobho Mott is involved in blood magic Tobbo is from Qohor. Qohor has preserved some of the knowledge of Valyria. Which included blood sacrifice as a basis for magic. From TWoI&F: Quote Qohor is sometimes known as the City of Sorcerers, for it is widely believed that the dark arts are practiced here even to this day. Divination, bloodmagic, and necromancy are whispered of, though such reports can seldom be proved. Quote According to Pol, the true reason for his final exile was his discovery of blood sacrifices—including the killing of slaves as young as infants—which the Qohorik smiths used in their efforts to produce a steel to equal that of the Freehold. Sure some blood was needed to reforge Ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 18 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said: Sure some blood was needed to reforge Ice. As long as Valyrians had access to enough slaves they did not really need any gold. But they could get all gold they wanted from their own mines. So I assume that anyone who wanted to buy Valyrian steel weapon had to pay that with slaves. Or nobody could gain VS without selling some slaves to Valyria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said: As long as Valyrians had access to enough slaves they did not really need any gold. But they could get all gold they wanted from their own mines. So I assume that anyone who wanted to buy Valyrian steel weapon had to pay that with slaves. Or nobody could gain VS without selling some slaves to Valyria. While they were on the market, I don't know what the Valyrian asked to make the steel. The Qohorik tried with human blood and failed. As the slaves were numerous and the steel rare, I logically suppose it was not sufficient. Some believe it needed dragon's blood. IMO, it would make sense. But there was no Valyrians left when Tywin sought for a blade, how many slaves (or dragons) he could offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted October 9, 2022 Author Share Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said: While they were on the market, I don't know what the Valyrian asked to make the steel. The Qohorik tried with human blood and failed. As the slaves were numerous and the steel rare, I logically suppose it was not sufficient. Some believe it needed dragon's blood. IMO, it would make sense. But there was no Valyrians left when Tywin sought for a blade, how many slaves (or dragons) he could offer. It is possible some of the poorer noble houses/traders of valyria tried to make money by selling vsteel to westerosi lords through dragonstone or driftmark or claw isle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: It is possible some of the poorer noble houses/traders of valyria tried to make money by selling vsteel to westerosi lords through dragonstone or driftmark or claw isle. As Loose Bolt said, I don't think the noble houses of Valyria had the need of Westeros' gold. And the less rich had probably no steel. I'm sure some swords were lost, from time to time. And traded secretly. Some found their way to Westeros. But not that many. The Lannisters had one once. But they lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skahaz mo Kandaq Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 On 10/3/2022 at 5:34 AM, Tyrosh Lannister said: He offered to buy valyrian steel swords from impoverished houses but he was refused. Why not go to the free cities and buy them ? He went to Lys on one of his trips... Why not buy a weapon from there? Or go to Qohor or the other free cities ? A plot twist may reveal that the Lannisters are not as wealthy as they appear and the price of Valyrian steel is much more dear than what we have been led to assume. It is also a sign of the rot within the Lannisters. They acquired Casterly by means of a cheat. Could be that means something to the author. Blood must be paid for glory sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 13 hours ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said: A plot twist may reveal that the Lannisters are not as wealthy as they appear and the price of Valyrian steel is much more dear than what we have been led to assume. It is also a sign of the rot within the Lannisters. They acquired Casterly by means of a cheat. Could be that means something to the author. Blood must be paid for glory sort of thing. Didn't grrm say the gold mines of casterly rock are still functional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.