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Worst to best: Eddard, Jon, Robb


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Which of the three characters above do you think is the worst person of the tree? Which one is the best?

I find it hard to line them up, as there isn't really a clear decisive factor among them. So there you have it: Ned, Jon and Robb.

Now you may think Robb is a clear third in this race, but really? What did he do in his campaign that the other two wouldn't have done the same? I feel like we have to imagine them in each other's boots.

 

 

Edited by Daeron the Daring
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29 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I have to put Robb in last place because I don't think Ned or Snowhead would make the same mistake he did with Jeyne. Unless the love potion theory is true and so Robb was drugged into it. Ned wouldn't break the marriage pack because it would be dishonourable and Snowhead wouldn't either.

The two were explicitly manipulated into having sex by Jeyne's mother. At least that much is for sure. Was Ned ever exposed like that? Severely wounded and grieving his dead brothers?

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15 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The two were explicitly manipulated into having sex by Jeyne's mother. At least that much is for sure. Was Ned ever exposed like that? Severely wounded and grieving his dead brothers?

Didn't Mance manipulate Jon to have sex with Ygritte? Jon however choose his duty and honor over love, unlike Robb.

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6 minutes ago, sifth said:

Didn't Mance manipulate Jon to have sex with Ygritte? Jon however choose his duty and honor over love, unlike Robb.

No, he did not. And Robb's dilemma wasn't honor vs something else after he had sex with Jeyne. The two scenarios, to me, are uncomparable. 

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26 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Was Ned ever exposed like that? Severely wounded and grieving his dead brothers?

With Ashara, but he still married Catelyn.

Maybe not the wounded part though unless you count emotional damage.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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1 minute ago, Daeron the Daring said:

No, he did not. And Robb's dilemma wasn't honor vs something else after he had sex with Jeyne. The two scenarios, to me, are uncomparable.

If he wasn't drugged then he was choosing love over honour, but if he was drugged there wasn't really a choice to begin with, since he didn't have the free will required to make the choice. But unless there is conformation he was drugged I am not sure.

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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

I have to put Robb in last place because I don't think Ned or Snowhead would make the same mistake he did with Jeyne. Unless the love potion theory is true and so Robb was drugged into it. Ned wouldn't break the marriage pack because it would be dishonourable and Snowhead wouldn't either.

By mistake do you mean him laying with Jeyne, or marrying Jeyne, a higborn maid from an impoverished but ancient house which had produced a queen (Jeyne Westerling wife of Maegor I)?  If you mean laying, Jon has laid with Ygritte and Eddard most likely laid with Ashara(which resulted in Allyriawhose name sounds like Lyarra and is the supposed sister of Lord Dayne, curiously nick named Ned).  

If you mean marriage, the reason Robb married Jeyne in the first place is because of his love for his brother Jon. He even said it, I'll add the quote if I can.

 

Edited by Corvo the Crow
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8 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

With Ashara, but he still married Catelyn.

I don't recall Ned ever being lured into having sex with anyone, especially not with Ashara. To make a proper comparison is to answer what Ned would've done after he wakes up in a bed with Jeyne Westerling.

6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

If he wasn't drugged then he was choosing love over honour, but if he was drugged there wasn't really a choice to begin with, since he didn't have the free will required to make the choice. But unless there is conformation he was drugged I am not sure.

But the moral dilemma is that he is honorable, no matter what. He can choose to honor his promise to Walder Frey or dishonor him (and his family) by not dishonoring Jeyne Westerling. In that situation he was taking a blow on his honor, no matter what does he choose (not as if he fell deeply in love with Jeyne so much that he couldn't forget about her if he wanted to. In fact, there most likely wasn't more in it than attraction at that point).

Edited by Daeron the Daring
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9 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

But the moral dilemma is that he is honorable, no matter what. He can choose to honor his promise to Walder Frey or dishonor him (and his family) by not dishonoring Jeyne Westerling. In that situation he was taking a blow on his honor, no matter what does he choose (not as if he fell deeply in love with Jeyne so much that he couldn't forget about her if he wanted to. In fact, there most likely wasn't more in it than attraction at that point).

Having sex with someone outside of wedlock is considered "dishonorable"? I don't even think Ned was that harsh when it came to honor. I'm with @Craving Peaches, if there was a love potion involved it's not comparable, if there is, they have very comparable.

I guess Jon isn't a very honorable person, for having slept with a wilding, by this logic.

Edited by sifth
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4 minutes ago, sifth said:

Having sex with someone outside of wedlock is considered "dishonorable"? I don't even think Ned was that harsh when it came to honor. I'm with @Craving Peaches, if there was a love potion involved it's not comparable, if there is, they have very comparable.

I guess Jon isn't a very honorable person, for having slept with a wilding, by this logic.

Jon was obeying a command of his superior. So many vows... they make you swear and swear. It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or the other.

Edited by Corvo the Crow
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11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

By mistake do you mean him laying with Jeyne, or marrying Jeyne, a higborn maid from an impoverished but ancient house which had produced a queen (Jeyne Westerling wife of Maegor I)?  If you mean laying, Jon has laid with Ygritte and Eddard most likely laid with Ashara(which resulted in Allyriawhose name sounds like Lyarra and is the supposed sister of Lord Dayne, curiously nick named Ned).  

If you mean marriage, the reason Robb married Jeyne in the first place is because of his love for his brother Jon. He even said it, I'll add the quote if I can.

I think the marriage part was a mistake, not because Jeyne was bad queen material or anything, but because it broke his wedding vow with the Freys which cost him support.  Robb had a pre-existing obligation that he should have considered/remembered, and I don't think Eddard or Snowhead would break that pact because it would be dishonourable and politically silly respectively.

I mean in terms of numbers the Freys are bringing ~4000 men including ~1000 horse while the Westerlings seem to only bring ~50.

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1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Jon was obeying a command of his superior. So many vows... they make you swear and swear. It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or the other.

I don't hold it against Snowhead because the orders from Qhorin were clear: he had to do whatever it took to integrate with the Wildlings.

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1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think the marriage part was a mistake, not because Jeyne was bad queen material or anything, but because it broke his wedding vow with the Freys which cost him support.  Robb had a pre-existing obligation that he should have considered/remembered, and I don't think Eddard or Snowhead would break that pact because it would be dishonourable and politically silly respectively.

I mean in terms of numbers the Freys are bringing ~4000 men including ~1000 horse while the Westerlings seem to only bring ~50.

It was a mistake, yes, a mistake Ned didn't make with Ashara. But as I said, Robb did this mistake only because of Ned. Ned had a bastard, Jon, he didn't marry with her mother, and the bastard was mistreated by the wife. Robb grew up seeing how his mother mistreated his bastard brother.

Edited by Corvo the Crow
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3 minutes ago, sifth said:

Having sex with someone outside of wedlock is considered "dishonorable"? I don't even think Ned was that harsh when it came to honor. I'm with @Craving Peaches, if there was a love potion involved it's not comparable, if there is, they have very comparable.

I guess Jon isn't a very honorable person, for having slept with a wilding, by this logic.

I suppose you are not familiar with the concept of adultery then. In medieval times. 

The reason Robb marries Jeyne Westerling is because (1) he took her virginity and (2) he may leave her pregnant. Neither having sex with someone  you are not married to, nor having a child while unmarried is dishonorable in our 21st century, but it was very much something people cared about in those days ASOIAF is set in.

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1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said:

It was a mistake, yes, a mistake Ned didn't make with Ashara. But as I said, Robb did this mistake only because of Ned.

I agree it's a sympathetic mistake. All three are sympathetic characters. I just put Robb in last place because I don't think the others would make this one mistake.

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2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I agree it's a sympathetic mistake. All three are sympathetic characters. I just put Robb in last place because I don't think the others would make this one mistake.

But you didn't make a choice between Ned and Jon.

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Just now, Daeron the Daring said:

But you didn't make a choice between Ned and Jon.

Hmm...Snowhead it is. Because I think he is more pragmatic that Ned. He has the honour for good PR but I feel he isn't as constrained by it as Ned was.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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3 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I suppose you are not familiar with the concept of adultery then. In medieval times. 

The reason Robb marries Jeyne Westerling is because (1) he took her virginity and (2) he may leave her pregnant. Neither having sex with someone  you are not married to, nor having a child while unmarried is dishonorable in our 21st century, but it was very much something people cared about in those days ASOIAF is set in.

How are you committing adultery, when neither Robb nor Jeyne are married? Honestly it was just a one night stand, between two teens. Something quite common place in this world and even more common, when it comes to lords in this world.

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2 minutes ago, sifth said:

How are you committing adultery, when neither Robb nor Jeyne are married? Honestly it was just a one night stand, between two teens. Something quite common place in this world and even more common, when it comes to lords in this world.

If Robb didn't marry her I don't think anyone apart from the Westerlings would really care. It seems to be the ladies that usually suffer loss of social standing from these kinds of things.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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