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Worst to best: Eddard, Jon, Robb


Daeron the Daring

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23 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I agree but Tywin can't really talk because it's not like his men were disciplined either. They were burning and looting all over the place.

Yea, but he ordered them to do it. One of Tywin's final lines in the first novel is him telling Kevan to order The Mountain, Amory Lorch and the Brave Companions to loot and burn as much of the Riverlands as possible. He even asked Tyrion, if he wanted his clansmen to join in. Tywin wanted chaos in the Riverlands, to divide up Robb's army.

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Just now, sifth said:

Yea, but he ordered them to do it. One of Tywin's final lines in the first novel is him telling Kevan to order The Mountain, Amory Lorch and the Brave Companions to loot and burn as much as the Riverlands as possible. He even asked Tyrion, if he wanted his clansmen to join in. Tywin wanted chaos in the Riverlands, to divide up Robb's army.

I know he order Brave Companions and Gregor and Co. to raid but I think there is also mention of generic Lannister soldiers/'lions' who have deserted and are raiding. So I don't think there's great discipline there either.

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Just now, Craving Peaches said:

I know he order Brave Companions and Gregor and Co. to raid but I think there is also mention of generic Lannister soldiers/'lions' who have deserted and are raiding. So I don't think there's great discipline there either.

If so, I don't recall. Though I haven't read the second novel in a while.

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1 minute ago, sifth said:

If so, I don't recall. Though I haven't read the second novel in a while.

I think it's in one of the Arya chapters. The villagers mention Lannister deserters raiding and pillaging.

Found some quotes.

Quote

"Did you kill them?"

"Would I tell you if I did?" The man spat. "Likely it were wolves' work, or maybe lions, what's the difference? The wife and I found them dead. The way we see it, the place is ours now."

"Where is this wife of yours?" Ser Cleos asked.

Quote

"Just a boy the wife and me took in. We had two sons, but the lions killed one and the other died of the flux. 

Quote

"It's worse than bad, I hear. Wolves and lions both, and bands of broken men preying on anyone they can catch."

Quote

But when the lions came through they took all our wine and milk and honey, slaughtered the cows, and put our vineyard to the torch. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Ummm... Remind me again how did Robb die and why did it happen?

Roose murdered him in cold blood after his son conquered Robbs kingdom.

Do you honestly believe Walder wasnt preparing to betray Robb once the war took it's first turn?

4 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Robb did far worse mistakes than Jon, where Jon's mistakes where Jon's mistakes were out of necessity, Robb's weren't

Killing Janos arresting Karstark and sending a king to track a princess is not necessary. Logical yes, but not necessary.

6 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Confining Catelyn to her quarters was a great show of weakness, sending her to silent sisters was a great alternative.

Lol umm.. what? Kings locking up their mom is bad p.r and also really terrible 

7 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Beheading Rickard Karstark was a terrible mistake which had the most common alternative we've seen in the series, being sent to Night's Watch.

Robb needed to show force, prove to the world that Robbs an honorable king.  He took the public relations way out instead of sweeping it under the rug like Tyrion did with Slynt.

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36 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think it's in one of the Arya chapters. The villagers mention Lannister deserters raiding and pillaging.

Found some quotes.

 

Yea, we have no way of knowing if any of the people in your quotes were part of Gregor Clegane, Amory Lorch or the Brave Companions groups. Possibly it was a little of all 3.

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I think they're all basically flush.

From a decision making and political POV, including personal and political decisions, all three have screwed up.  Ned screwed up in Kings Landing because he couldn't imagine anyone forsaking honor, Jon screwed up with Ygritte and underestimating his opposition on the wall, and Robb screwed up with Jeyne and the nature of the Freys.

From a personal morals POV, I think Ned is on top, followed closely by Jon, and then Robb.

Adjusting for wisdom and maturity, they all did the best they could with what they had.  It just wasn't enough with any of them.

Thematically, it's very on-form.  For all 3 of them...the mistakes they made were all errors of putting love before duty.  That's the Stark weak-point (and they're all the more endearing for it).  Ned loved his sister, his wife, and his daughters, and all of his mistakes stem from decisions made to try and protect them.  Jon loves his family, and loved Ygritte, and all his mistakes stem from that.  Robb loved Jeyne, and we know how that turned out.

Love is the death of duty, eh?

 

That's one of the major themes of this whole story....when I think about it, it makes me wonder just how powerful the original Lightbringer was.  He sacrificed his love for a weapon to save the world.

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8 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Which of the three characters above do you think is the worst person of the tree? Which one is the best?

I find it hard to line them up, as there isn't really a clear decisive factor among them. So there you have it: Ned, Jon and Robb.

Now you may think Robb is a clear third in this race, but really? What did he do in his campaign that the other two wouldn't have done the same? I feel like we have to imagine them in each other's boots.

 

 

Ned had the most decency of the three.  The two boys are despicable.  Robb and Jon are oath breakers.  Jon is a treasonous commander of the watch.  Robb took Walder's help and then had the nerve to disrespect the man.  

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3 hours ago, Only 89 selfies today said:

Ned had the most decency of the three.  The two boys are despicable.  Robb and Jon are oath breakers.  Jon is a treasonous commander of the watch.  Robb took Walder's help and then had the nerve to disrespect the man.  

I guess I envy you for having such an easy time dealing with this question.

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7 hours ago, sifth said:

Yea, we have no way of knowing if any of the people in your quotes were part of Gregor Clegane, Amory Lorch or the Brave Companions groups. Possibly it was a little of all 3.

The fact that they are referred to as lions suggests they were wearing Lannister livery, which Gregor and his men wouldn't've been because they were in disguise when raiding, and I don't think the brave companions would be either. It sounds like Lannister deserters to me.

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Just now, Craving Peaches said:

It is but 'Snowhead' really makes me giggle. I don't know why though.

I like Snowhead too.

The best one I heard is Hoe Joe (developed around S8), but you have to be hungarian to understand that. (Basically the hungarian word for snow is "hó" which sounds exactly like the word hoe, thus the name)

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3 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I like Snowhead too.

The best one I heard is Hoe Joe (developed around S8), but you have to be hungarian to understand that. (Basically the hungarian word for snow is "hó" which sounds exactly like the word hoe, thus the name)

There should be a 'Funny Nicknames for Jon Snow' thread. I need time to explore all the possibilities.

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14 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

The fact that they are referred to as lions suggests they were wearing Lannister livery, which Gregor and his men wouldn't've been because they were in disguise when raiding, and I don't think the brave companions would be either. It sounds like Lannister deserters to me.

Gregor and his crew very much were in disguise at the start of the war, but not so much by the events of ACoK's, when Robert and Ned are well dead and Tywin is the Hand of the Kings again. When Arya is captured by The Mountain, his banner is in full display, near the bodies of people he is torturing and killing. Lorch used his banner as well, when he attacked Yoren and his crew.

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