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Jon's POV in TWOW, and where it could take us.


Sandy Clegg
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More of a quick question rather than speculation.

If we assume Jon will warg into Ghost for his POV chapters in The Winds of Winter, do we assume that Ghost will then leave Jon's body and go travelling North of the Wall? I know that's the general consensus among a lot of the fandom. But it seems like a long trek for a lone wolf to take, no? Now, I've read posts suggesting that Ghost himself may have warging powers, so  ... will Jon's chapters perhaps take us into the POVs of, say, Nymeria, Shaggydog and Summer? That would mean Jon's chapters get insights into goings on in the Riverlands, Skagos (even more, if Davos rescues Rickon), and North of the Wall via Summer. Could Jon/Ghost even warg some ravens and give us POVs from further afield? 

Basically it just seems like a looooong journey to get Ghost further north than Bran has gone already, and GRRM would make more efficient use of Jon/Ghost's POV by having him warg to various locations. It also solves the issue of having Ghost and Jon's bodies being too separated, as surely they would need to be close by in order for Jon to 'rejoin' his resurrected body (assuming - as most of us do - that this will happen). I know fans are waiting to explore the Lands of Always Winter via Jon/Ghost's POV but if he's warging ravens, for example, or Summer, then this could still be a thing.

What do you think guys? If we get warging POVs from Jon/Ghost in multiple locations, where else might he be able to see?

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My personal belief is that we are gonna lose Jon as a POV, simply because he will be going through drastical changes and critical times. That's why Melisandre may had been introduced as a POV: To replace Jon.

It would make an interesting situation for us, the readers, if we're not allowed into Jon's head anymore, just when it would be the most important. 

This may work well for George too, as he never seems to be keen on explaining magical stuff on his pages. It would stage a mistery that we might only bunk down along the way, instead of giving a clear and nailed down explanation to what exactly was the process of Jon's return.

At the very least it would be really interesting to not have the power of looking into Jon's head. It would certainly hype me up.

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5 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

My personal belief is that we are gonna lose Jon as a POV, simply because he will be going through drastical changes and critical times. That's why Melisandre may had been introduced as a POV: To replace Jon.

This is also what I think is the most likely. Jon becomes some kind of mystery. We're not allowed to see his game. Melisandre is the PoV.

I don't think we will have Jon's chapters with Ghost's body.

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What's the standing order for wildlings and the Night's Watch since old headless Jafer Flowers used Ser Jaremy Rykker as a pin cushion?  Burn the bodies. If Jon does warg Ghost, there seems to be little time for his furry rangings before the Men in Black decide to burn Lord Snow. Mel would have to revive him sooner than later. Ghost will stay there, whether Jon wargs or not. 

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21 hours ago, Mark of the West said:

What's the standing order for wildlings and the Night's Watch since old headless Jafer Flowers used Ser Jaremy Rykker as a pin cushion?  Burn the bodies. If Jon does warg Ghost, there seems to be little time for his furry rangings before the Men in Black decide to burn Lord Snow. Mel would have to revive him sooner than later. Ghost will stay there, whether Jon wargs or not. 

Yeah I’m thinking it’ll be hard to keep Jon’s body safe, unless Mel steps in to keep him from being burnt. Perhaps Edd wouldn’t burn him immediately? Ghost might have to do some ‘What’s that you say Skippy? Jon’s spirit is trapped in your body? And little Timmy’s fallen down a well? Crikey” … kind of thing :)

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On 10/6/2022 at 9:59 AM, Sandy Clegg said:

More of a quick question rather than speculation.

If we assume Jon will warg into Ghost for his POV chapters in The Winds of Winter, do we assume that Ghost will then leave Jon's body and go travelling North of the Wall? I know that's the general consensus among a lot of the fandom. But it seems like a long trek for a lone wolf to take, no? Now, I've read posts suggesting that Ghost himself may have warging powers, so  ... will Jon's chapters perhaps take us into the POVs of, say, Nymeria, Shaggydog and Summer? That would mean Jon's chapters get insights into goings on in the Riverlands, Skagos (even more, if Davos rescues Rickon), and North of the Wall via Summer. Could Jon/Ghost even warg some ravens and give us POVs from further afield? 

Basically it just seems like a looooong journey to get Ghost further north than Bran has gone already, and GRRM would make more efficient use of Jon/Ghost's POV by having him warg to various locations. It also solves the issue of having Ghost and Jon's bodies being too separated, as surely they would need to be close by in order for Jon to 'rejoin' his resurrected body (assuming - as most of us do - that this will happen). I know fans are waiting to explore the Lands of Always Winter via Jon/Ghost's POV but if he's warging ravens, for example, or Summer, then this could still be a thing.

What do you think guys? If we get warging POVs from Jon/Ghost in multiple locations, where else might he be able to see?

I imagine the Lands of Always Winter will be explored in Bran’s chapters.  He’ll be the one warging Ravens or whatever animal is needed to do his reconnaissance. 
 

If Ghost goes beyond the wall, I could see him crossing paths with the wildling skin changer who warged into his 1 eyed wolf for the last time.  Maybe Ghost will claim that pack as his own and eventually form a super pack with Nymeria’s Riverland pack?  
 

Talk about “a time for wolves”…

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Jon is not warging into Ghost. He's not dead. Just gravely injured. He will be out of commission until sometime in the last 1/4 of wow. he'll revive a little before the 3/4 mark, and be back in action sometime in the last few chapters. once he's up and aroud he'll be heading to winterfell with a force of wildlings and maybe some NW fighters, because he'll have gotten word that one or more - i predict all - of rickon, arya and sansa are there.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 10/6/2022 at 8:42 AM, Daeron the Daring said:

My personal belief is that we are gonna lose Jon as a POV, simply because he will be going through drastical changes and critical times. That's why Melisandre may had been introduced as a POV: To replace Jon.

It would make an interesting situation for us, the readers, if we're not allowed into Jon's head anymore, just when it would be the most important. 

This may work well for George too, as he never seems to be keen on explaining magical stuff on his pages. It would stage a mistery that we might only bunk down along the way, instead of giving a clear and nailed down explanation to what exactly was the process of Jon's return.

At the very least it would be really interesting to not have the power of looking into Jon's head. It would certainly hype me up.

Agreed. I think we lose Jon as a POV. The same was true for Catelyn.

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  • 1 month later...

It's an incredibly one to predict but as things stand, the most important thing at the Wall that's keeping Jon alive / option to be revived is Mel seeing him in her visions and knowing he's important. I personally do believe Jon's dead and that at least the first POV we see for him is through Ghost. As mentioned above, there will be a real fight to burn Jon's body and so Mel doesn't have a lot of time to work her magic to revive him - whether this is done through the Rholler's magic alone, or through sacrifice I'm not yet sure. But regardless, I think Jon will be revived relatively soon into the book (Wall POV Chapter wise) and we'll only get a maximum of 2 chapters whilst he's dead (Ghost and Mel). I do like the theory that we lose Jon as a POV for a while in order to not show what's happening inside the head of a formerly dead man (similar to Lady Stoneheart).

 

The reason I think Jon is dead is purely to push and emphasise that he's served his life for the Watch and died "for the Watch". He's done his time at the Wall, done what he needed to do (get the Wildlings south and be that narrative at the Wall) and is a free man now to do what he needs to do next

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  • 2 weeks later...

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