How did Aegon conquer westeros with 3 dragons and 1 year but the valyrians took decades to conquer Ghis with hundreds of dragons?

[Tyrosh Lannister]

How did Aegon conquer westeros (except Dorne) with 3 dragons and 1 year but the valyrians took decades, 5 wars to conquer Ghis with hundreds of dragons? Ghis is also smaller than westeros. This all does not make sense. 

[Ring3r]

18 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

How did Aegon conquer westeros (except Dorne) with 3 dragons and 1 year but the valyrians took decades, 5 wars to conquer Ghis with hundreds of dragons? Ghis is also smaller than westeros. This all does not make sense. 

So, the beginning portions of those wars are extremely poorly documented, so we can't really know for sure...but....

Old Ghis had already established what appears to be a very dominant civilization prior to Valyria coming into its power.  The first couple Ghiscari Wars....Valyria was nowhere near its peak.  I'd imagine they didn't have the dragon numbers or soldier numbers required to properly project power.

Another thing to consider is that Old Ghis claims to trace its history very far back.  It's likely that they'd encountered dragons, at least a few times, or had written records of how to fight them from surviving GEotD texts.  The beginning stages of these wars were ~8k years ago.  They may have been able to produce some potent anti-dragon weapons (maybe something like the ballistas from the TV show?) or other things.  And it's long enough ago that they might have had access to some magic of their own.

They gradually lost more and more until they were defeated, as Valyria gradually increased in power.  It's not like they just started out fighting Valyria at the height of its Empire.

Westeros, on the other hand, hadn't needed to deal with dragons since the Long Night.  They were also divided and fighting amongst themselves.  That's a much easier target.  They didn't know how to fight, and they were busy fighting each other.

Kind of echoes what's about to happen in Winds of Winter, honestly.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

18 minutes ago, Ring3r said:

So, the beginning portions of those wars are extremely poorly documented, so we can't really know for sure...but....

Old Ghis had already established what appears to be a very dominant civilization prior to Valyria coming into its power.  The first couple Ghiscari Wars....Valyria was nowhere near its peak.  I'd imagine they didn't have the dragon numbers or soldier numbers required to properly project power.

Another thing to consider is that Old Ghis claims to trace its history very far back.  It's likely that they'd encountered dragons, at least a few times, or had written records of how to fight them from surviving GEotD texts.  The beginning stages of these wars were ~8k years ago.  They may have been able to produce some potent anti-dragon weapons (maybe something like the ballistas from the TV show?) or other things.  And it's long enough ago that they might have had access to some magic of their own.

They gradually lost more and more until they were defeated, as Valyria gradually increased in power.  It's not like they just started out fighting Valyria at the height of its Empire.

Westeros, on the other hand, hadn't needed to deal with dragons since the Long Night.  They were also divided and fighting amongst themselves.  That's a much easier target.  They didn't know how to fight, and they were busy fighting each other.

Kind of echoes what's about to happen in Winds of Winter, honestly.

Valyrians have dragons. They are like nuclear weapons. Hundreds of nukes. Easy to conquer Ghis. What did Ghis have ? You don't really need soldiers. Just fly your dragons over the ghiscari and burnt them all.easily kill tens of thousands of people. Conquering Ghis would be a piece of cake like conquering the rhoynar. We don't know if Ghis used any magics. If they did use, what was it ? Rhoynar used water magic and failed. Ghis used strong harpy magics ? Magically enhanced scorpion bolts ? 

[Loose Bolt]

4 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Valyrians have dragons. They are like nuclear weapons. Hundreds of nukes. Easy to conquer Ghis. What did Ghis have ? You don't really need soldiers. Just fly your dragons over the ghiscari and burnt them all.easily kill tens of thousands of people. Conquering Ghis would be a piece of cake like conquering the rhoynar. We don't know if Ghis used any magics. If they did use, what was it ? Rhoynar used water magic and failed. Ghis used strong harpy magics ? Magically enhanced scorpion bolts ? 

Some myths talk about a woman with monkey tail who saved the world from Long Night. In my head canon she was a Saiyan. So it is possible that Ghiskari hired some Saiyans to kill some dragons and their riders.

[Lady_Qohor]

4 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Valyrians have dragons. They are like nuclear weapons. Hundreds of nukes. Easy to conquer Ghis. What did Ghis have ? You don't really need soldiers. Just fly your dragons over the ghiscari and burnt them all.easily kill tens of thousands of people. Conquering Ghis would be a piece of cake like conquering the rhoynar. We don't know if Ghis used any magics. If they did use, what was it ? Rhoynar used water magic and failed. Ghis used strong harpy magics ? Magically enhanced scorpion bolts ? 

Maybe the Valyrians were reluctant to damage the city and put off using dragons or only used them very sparingly. After all what is the point of being kings of the ashes when with a bit more patience you could potentially gain a great city with all its art, architecture, wealth, technology, knowledge and labour force.

The Westerosi lords were at a disadvantage in this regard, with the exception of the Hightowers, they lived often lived apart from the bulk of their people and infrastructure, making them more vulnerable to dragon attack.

Also the Ghiscari could have had scorpions.

[The Commentator]

6 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

How did Aegon conquer westeros (except Dorne) with 3 dragons and 1 year but the valyrians took decades, 5 wars to conquer Ghis with hundreds of dragons? Ghis is also smaller than westeros. This all does not make sense. 

Ghis of the time was more advanced when compared to the Westeros that the three Targaryens conquered.  The legions of Old Ghis are just like Dany's Unsullied and the ones who defended Qohor.  In other words, Ghis is superior militarily to Westeros.  Westeros would not have lasted a month against the Dragon Lords of Old Valyria. 

Dany will arrive with a much superior force compared to her ancestors.  Three dragons, her Unsullied, and presumably the Dothraki khalasars.  However, she will want to accomplish her path to the throne without having to engage in too many battles.  She has to prepare for the White Walkers and save her best against the Starks and the army of Ice. 

[Tyrosh Lannister]

1 hour ago, Lady_Qohor said:

Maybe the Valyrians were reluctant to damage the city and put off using dragons or only used them very sparingly. After all what is the point of being kings of the ashes when with a bit more patience you could potentially gain a great city with all its art, architecture, wealth, technology, knowledge and labour force.

The Westerosi lords were at a disadvantage in this regard, with the exception of the Hightowers, they lived often lived apart from the bulk of their people and infrastructure, making them more vulnerable to dragon attack.

Also the Ghiscari could have had scorpions.

If that were the case they wouldn't have destroyed all of the rhoynish cities . 

Dorne also had scorpions. Other kingdoms did not ?

[BalerionTheCat]

I suppose they had not that many dragons in the early time. And were afraid to risk them in battle. It took 5 wars, each the Valyrian victorious. What took long was, I suppose, to mate the rebellions. Not to win the wars.

[Lady_Qohor]

56 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

If that were the case they wouldn't have destroyed all of the rhoynish cities . 

Dorne also had scorpions. Other kingdoms did not ?

Maybe the Ghiscari had cooler stuff in their cities that the Valyrians thought was worth saving

[Craving Peaches]

I agree with users above. Westeros was weakened by infighting. By comparison Ghis probably presented a united front. And I think their military save dragons was superior. Also, I got the sense that the Valyrians were trying to incorporate Ghis into their country rather than just have the Ghiscari acknowledge them as their feudal overlord, so the Ghiscari may have put everything they had into fighting the Valyrians, total war style.

[Daenerysthegreat]

Well I think the valerians never went out all at a time against the empire. And even at it’s height Valyria possessed 300 dragons, 5000 years ago it must have had like 50 or something.

[cytherea]

3 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Dorne also had scorpions. Other kingdoms did not ?

I think that's a valid point, but I'll be the one to remind you that Dorne also remained unconquered for over a hundred years and they also yeeted meraxes outta the sky.

[Aldarion]

10 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

How did Aegon conquer westeros (except Dorne) with 3 dragons and 1 year but the valyrians took decades, 5 wars to conquer Ghis with hundreds of dragons? Ghis is also smaller than westeros. This all does not make sense. 

I assume that dragons started out very small. Basically, maximum size was barely large enough to ride - definitely not the army-destroying dragons that Aegon had used. And then, over time, as Valyrian empire expanded, dragons became both larger (more destructive) and more numerous. Ghiscari probably managed to keep abreast with various countermeasures for a time, but after a certain point, Valyrian dragons were simply too powerful and numerous to counter. And once that happened, it was curtains for the Ghiscari.

So it wasn't that Ghis was in any way superior to Westeros, it is just that Valyrians they were fighting against were far weaker than Aegon and his sisters in terms of firepower.

[Hugorfonics]

12 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

How did Aegon conquer westeros (except Dorne) with 3 dragons and 1 year but the valyrians took decades, 5 wars to conquer Ghis with hundreds of dragons? Ghis is also smaller than westeros. This all does not make sense. 

Supreme luck

It also helps that Westerosi love lining up in dominos fashion, surrounded by bright neon banners that screams attack here like a Wile e Coyote cartoon 

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

It also helps that Westerosi love lining up in dominos fashion, surrounded by bright neon banners that screams attack here

Well, the 1st time they were taken by surprise. Not knowing what dragons can do. Then this was shock. Not knowing how to fight that.

They also like bending the knee.

[Hugorfonics]

31 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Well, the 1st time they were taken by surprise. Not knowing what dragons can do. Then this was shock. Not knowing how to fight that.

True

32 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

They also like bending the knee.

Lmao, it's like a sport to them

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

13 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

How did Aegon conquer westeros (except Dorne) with 3 dragons and 1 year but the valyrians took decades, 5 wars to conquer Ghis with hundreds of dragons? Ghis is also smaller than westeros. This all does not make sense. 

The previous replies are dancing around and avoiding the answer they know to be true but don't want to give. It is quite simple.  The lock step legions of Old Ghis were very, very good.  They were better than anything the 3 Targaryens faced during their conquest of the Westerosi.  Valyria and its hundreds of dragons took a few hard tries before Ghis was defeated.   Look at the training of the Unsullied from Astapor to see how tough those legions must have been.  The Valyrians were fighting a very professional army who has had the best training possible.  Like Dany's own Unsullied infantry.  Aegon and his sisters were facing a brave but less trained combination of armies.  The field of fire only killed 4000 men and a few more died from their wounds.  So about 5000 and that was enough to force a surrender.  The total casualties were less than a fraction of just one khalasar.  One khalasar.  Westeros is less populated and it is dependent on reserves for most of what it can take to battle.  There is just no comparison to the might of Old Ghis.  Truthfully, Dany could retake Westeros without her dragons.  The Unsullied, a few large khalasars, some sellswords, trained ex-slaves, and allies from among the noble families would be enough.

 

[BlackLightning]

I agree with what a lot of people have already spoken about.

I also think it's worth mentioning that the kingdoms of Westeros have the additional challenge of having to navigate the remote, agrarian nature of Westeros. Like it took the North forever to galvanize its military...and then they had to march south. By the time that they had shown up, the Vale, the Riverlands, the Stormlands, the Reach and the Westerlands have already submitted and pledged themselves to the Targaryens.

And then there's also the weather. Lords (especially those such as Torrhen Stark) don't really have time, patience or resources to wage war and plot rebellions what with winter coming. Dorne probably doesn't have such issues.

Old Ghis seemed to have been a lot more concentrated and metropolitan than Westeros and they don't have the weather issues to contend with.

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

The previous replies are dancing around and avoiding the answer they know to be true but don't want to give. It is quite simple.  The lock step legions of Old Ghis were very, very good.  They were better than anything the 3 Targaryens faced during their conquest of the Westerosi.

Yes, I know. It was probably also a factor. Huge human casualties are less of a problem for slavers. But it's not just the slaves who died. But you needed something to kill the dragons. Not just legions.

[Aldarion]

42 minutes ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

The previous replies are dancing around and avoiding the answer they know to be true but don't want to give. It is quite simple.  The lock step legions of Old Ghis were very, very good.  They were better than anything the 3 Targaryens faced during their conquest of the Westerosi.  Valyria and its hundreds of dragons took a few hard tries before Ghis was defeated.   Look at the training of the Unsullied from Astapor to see how tough those legions must have been.  The Valyrians were fighting a very professional army who has had the best training possible.  Like Dany's own Unsullied infantry.  Aegon and his sisters were facing a brave but less trained combination of armies.  The field of fire only killed 4000 men and a few more died from their wounds.  So about 5000 and that was enough to force a surrender.  The total casualties were less than a fraction of just one khalasar.  One khalasar.  Westeros is less populated and it is dependent on reserves for most of what it can take to battle.  There is just no comparison to the might of Old Ghis.  Truthfully, Dany could retake Westeros without her dragons.  The Unsullied, a few large khalasars, some sellswords, trained ex-slaves, and allies from among the noble families would be enough.

 

If we look at training of the Unsullied, then the legions of Astapor were a bloody joke. So whatever the answer is to "why Valyrians took decades to conquer Ghis", it certainly isn't "Ghiscari lockstep legions were awesome".

And even assuming that Ghiscari legions were somehow far more competent than the Unsullied, or maybe even as competent as meme Unsullied (as opposed to actual ones)... "professional army with the best training possible" has nothing on flying nukes. All that will result from supreme discipline is... massive casualties as dragons simply fly over and torch everything. Discipline doesn't matter, training doesn't matter, equipment doesn't matter, when dragons come you are dead. The only way to counter dragons, if you do not have dragons of your own, is to disperse and hide: a.k.a. guerilla warfare, a.k.a. what Dorne did when Targaryens invaded.

And no, without her dragons, Daenerys' army you describe is a joke by Westerosi standards.