[SPOILERS] Rings of Power: "I am Sauron" "I'm Sauron" "I'm Sauron!"

[slant]

The alleged Amazon employee who leaked stuff referred to the material they saw as "footage", which I think were rushes and not entire episodes. So really do not think Halbrand is Sauron, because they literally showed Sauron. 

I would really be happier if Eminem is Sauron, as against Halbrand. The only real clue pointing in that direction is that Halbrand asked Adar if Adar recognised him. They should have peppered it with more clues if Halbrand is indeed Sauron. 

Looks like harfoots and Meteor Man will confront the witches, Halbrand and Galadriel will meet Gil-Galad. Still think Halbrand is one of the nine. Donno What Durin and Elrond will do, but that is going to be the best part. Berek will find Isildur. 

Don't really care much about what Elendil and Miriel will do though. 

[Le Cygne]

On 10/9/2022 at 4:30 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

With the exception of Elrond, most of these actors are new to me, but I realized that I have seen Morfydd Clark in one other movie. She played Charles Dickens’ wife in The Man Who Invented Christmas (starring Dan Stevens). It was all about how Dickens wrote A Christmas Carol under a short deadline (and how much of a neurotic mad genius he was haha). Great movie, both as a holiday flick and a period piece. I hadn’t realized how much of a wunderkind Dickens was until I saw it. I had always assumed he’d come into fame later in life, but nope. He wrote Oliver Twist when he was 26!

Oh wow, I really liked that movie (the Dickens one), too! I didn't realize Morfydd was his wife. Dickens is one heck of a good storyteller.

(Just looked it up, it's available for rent again on November 12!)

[Argonath Diver]

Here's the bone in my craw about Halbrand-as-Sauron:

We have a multi thousand league Elven voyage Westbound. All those elves were surely quite tired while they stood in formation on a ship with no apparent below-decks across the Sundering Seas, but our girl Galadriel was kinda iffy on giving up on Middle Earth on accountin' of her steadfast belief in Sauron being a threat. So she hops in for an armor clad 3000 leagues across the sea back-stroke. All that makes complete sense of course to all of us.

On the other hand, what exactly is the plan of the greatest dark power since his master Morgoth? He took human form in the southlands as a king so that eventually he would face exile on a ship that would somehow drift several thousand leagues across the Great Sea only to be beset by a sea beast. Then of course this cover would allow him to befriend an Elven warrior and lover of beach horse-gallops. And be found by Numenoreans. And then! More intrigue before his eventual daring reveal as the dark hand behind all the evil besetting the world!

I dunno it sounds pretty fucking stupid.  Far better if Halbrand is just himself though likely doomed to Witch-Kinginess. Let the actual Sauron-in-disguise appear in the finale, which is what I felt would happen weeks ago and I hold to it, leaks be damned.

[Heartofice]

Am I the only one who really doesn’t care who Sauron is? The fact that this is pretty much the main discussion going on around this show and has been since day 1 is pretty depressing. Really highlights how little else is going on in the show that trying to find your own fun by being internet detectives is the only way to enjoy the show. 
 

The problem with all these reveals is that they will always be a disappointment once you learn the truth.

[karaddin]

I'm bothered by all the people calling that character Eminem, I've seen a villain much closer to him.

Also Galadriel was wearing a night gown for the swim, not armour. When what actually happened was already straining suspension of disbelief as far as that was we really don't need be embellishing it to make it seem even worse.

I think my preferred Sauron is just being introduced to Annatar having been off screen with Celebrimbor this whole time so the characters we've gotten to know can at least continue to be those characters.

[SeanF]

Maybe one of the hobbits is Sauron.

[3CityApache]

1 hour ago, karaddin said:

I think my preferred Sauron is just being introduced to Annatar having been off screen with Celebrimbor this whole time so the characters we've gotten to know can at least continue to be those characters.

Yup, I would love Sauron to be a character we saw briefly, but never suspected, or - better still - a completely new character we haven't seen at all yet.

[Isis]

6 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

Here's the bone in my craw about Halbrand-as-Sauron:

We have a multi thousand league Elven voyage Westbound. All those elves were surely quite tired while they stood in formation on a ship with no apparent below-decks across the Sundering Seas, but our girl Galadriel was kinda iffy on giving up on Middle Earth on accountin' of her steadfast belief in Sauron being a threat. So she hops in for an armor clad 3000 leagues across the sea back-stroke. All that makes complete sense of course to all of us.

On the other hand, what exactly is the plan of the greatest dark power since his master Morgoth? He took human form in the southlands as a king so that eventually he would face exile on a ship that would somehow drift several thousand leagues across the Great Sea only to be beset by a sea beast. Then of course this cover would allow him to befriend an Elven warrior and lover of beach horse-gallops. And be found by Numenoreans. And then! More intrigue before his eventual daring reveal as the dark hand behind all the evil besetting the world!

I dunno it sounds pretty fucking stupid.  Far better if Halbrand is just himself though likely doomed to Witch-Kinginess. Let the actual Sauron-in-disguise appear in the finale, which is what I felt would happen weeks ago and I hold to it, leaks be damned.

Are these your own words? Did you watch the show or are you just repeating other people's comments?

She was in an undergarment, not armour. That's what she is wearing while swimming and when getting rescued by Numenoreans. Much is unclear about the backstory of Halbrand but I get the impression that his exile was self-imposed rather than something that was done to him. Ans since this is the spoiler thread - Sauron (in The Sil) allows himself to be taken captive by Numenoreans (I'm not totally clear but it seems like you are saying that would be a stupid thing for him to do, when it is an actual thing he does in the text).

Anyway, I have an open mind about 'who is Sauron' and have long wished for it to be A N Other person who has been in Eregion the whole time. But I will say that you can watch ALL of Halbrand's scenes and they do make sense if he was Sauron. Some of them would be genuinely hilarious. I can wait another few days to find out.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

Said it before, but now I’m very certain we are going to be getting a scene where Celebrimbor is talking about forging rings and say “I’d like you to meet my talented apprentice - Boron, say hello”  and the camera will pan over to a fully-armored, gauntlet-handed figure tentatively waving.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

Maybe one of the hobbits is Sauron.

Galadriel is Sauron!  

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, Isis said:

She was in an undergarment, not armour. That's what she is wearing while swimming and when getting rescued by Numenoreans. Much is unclear about the backstory of Halbrand but I get the impression that his exile was self-imposed rather than something that was done to him. Ans since this is the spoiler thread - Sauron (in The Sil) allows himself to be taken captive by Numenoreans (I'm not totally clear but it seems like you are saying that would be a stupid thing for him to do, when it is an actual thing he does in the text).

OK, 2 things:

- While Sauron may run and hide when defeated, assuming Adar was telling the truth about what he did, his exile would be more towards parts of Middle-earth where he might gather support, like the far east or Far Harad. When the White Council drives him out of Dol Guldur during the time of The Hobbit, his spirit flees east before then going to Mordor. It's just befuddling that he would end up on a ship in the middle of the sea.

- Sauron first challenged the Numenoreans militarily, attacking their outposts and colonies in Middle-earth. When Ar-Pharazon comes with an army so mighty that Sauron's allies start abandoning him, he then has the choice of fleeing or surrendering. He definitely sees the nature of what the Numenoreans have become, which is not yet emulated in the show, and the surrender strategy is the best option for him.

[Myrddin]

20 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

I think the only thing that would really being satisfactory is that the being Adar killed is someone he thought was Sauron, but it actually wasn't, and that being became Halbrand.   Maybe Halbrand will later will become one of the Nazgul.

lol maybe Halbrand is a werewolf. 

If the Witch King wasn't canonically human, I would have thought Adar would become it. 

 

Really, the only interest I have in this series is who are the 9 nazgul?  They apparently are called:  The Witch-king of Angmar, The Dark Marshal, Khamûl The Easterling, The Betrayer, The Shadow Lord, The Undying, The Dwimmerlaik, The Tainted and The Knight of Umbar.

If Halbrand isn't one of those, I can't imagine what the writers are thinking.

This. Halbrand is probably being set up as the tragic fallen hero of the series. Anakin --> Vader story.

Whoever Sauron is, he likely hasn't shown up yet and is already in Eregion.

That or he's Mephisto.

[Corvinus85]

21 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Really, the only interest I have in this series is who are the 9 nazgul?  They apparently are called:  The Witch-king of Angmar, The Dark Marshal, Khamûl The Easterling, The Betrayer, The Shadow Lord, The Undying, The Dwimmerlaik, The Tainted and The Knight of Umbar.

I'm curious where you got this from? I don't dispute it, but afaik, besides the Witch-king only Khamûl was ever named by Tolkien.

There was a trading card game years ago based on the movies with added book lore that named them all with Ulairi term in their name, like so. I'm pretty sure it's not canon.

[Zorral]

10 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

All those elves were surely quite tired while they stood in formation on a ship with no apparent below-decks across the Sundering Seas

They were standing in the leave-taking ceremonial pattern.  You know, the way armies and monarchs and so on march into and out of cities, or on ships.  Once out of sight of the people they break down and get into their working postures and clothing.  And she was NOT wearing armor.  Puleeze, buddy, watch what is there.

[SpaceChampion]

17 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I'm curious where you got this from? I don't dispute it, but afaik, besides the Witch-king only Khamûl was ever named by Tolkien.

There was a trading card game years ago based on the movies with added book lore that named them all with Ulairi term in their name, like so. I'm pretty sure it's not canon.

Yeah, consider it bullshit, googling led me astray.  It came from a trading card games or the a line of miniatures.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

32 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Yeah, consider it bullshit, googling led me astray.  It came from a trading card games or the a line of miniatures.

“Dwimmerlaik” is what Eowyn called the Witch-King when she confronted him.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Galadriel jumping off the boat didn’t bother me because it clearly wasn’t planned. She made a split-second decision that she didn’t think through, and she would have died had she not gotten lucky and happened upon the raft. 

If the lesson is “Galadriel’s anger inadvertently helped restore Sauron to power,” then it’s also “don’t try to help people because that’s also bad.” The narrative would be condemning Galadriel for trying to save the Southlanders and defeat a dark lord who killed her family. And who’s to say Sauron wouldn’t have been tempted back to power eventually without her? It’s a really weird sell.

Halbrand’s story is pretty weird too, even if he’s who he says he is. The idea of a long-lost king would imply that he and his family were away from the Southlands for generations, since at least before Arondir and co. showed up. Except. . . Halbrand claims he did live in the Southlands, that they all made huge compromises to survive, and that he vowed to never return. So I suppose he had grown up with his heritage kept secret? But then you would think some of the other Southlanders would recognize him, so. . . 

[Leofric]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Galadriel jumping off the boat didn’t bother me because it clearly wasn’t planned. She made a split-second decision that she didn’t think through, and she would have died had she not gotten lucky and happened upon the raft. 

If the lesson is “Galadriel’s anger inadvertently helped restore Sauron to power,” then it’s also “don’t try to help people because that’s also bad.” The narrative would be condemning Galadriel for trying to save the Southlanders and defeat a dark lord who killed her family. And who’s to say Sauron wouldn’t have been tempted back to power eventually without her? It’s a really weird sell.

Halbrand’s story is pretty weird too, even if he’s who he says he is. The idea of a long-lost king would imply that he and his family were away from the Southlands for generations, since at least before Arondir and co. showed up. Except. . . Halbrand claims he did live in the Southlands, that they all made huge compromises to survive, and that he vowed to never return. So I suppose he had grown up with his heritage kept secret? But then you would think some of the other Southlanders would recognize him, so. . . 

I always took Halbarand asking Adar if he remembered him was that Halbarand was  once asked by Adar to make the same choice the old villager did, he killed one of his own in order to survive being captured by the Orcs and worked with them for awhile before he fled to the sea.  That is why he felt ashamed and wanted to make a new life in Numenor rather than go back to the Southlands.  

[Calibandar]

15 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

Here's the bone in my craw about Halbrand-as-Sauron:

We have a multi thousand league Elven voyage Westbound. All those elves were surely quite tired while they stood in formation on a ship with no apparent below-decks across the Sundering Seas, but our girl Galadriel was kinda iffy on giving up on Middle Earth on accountin' of her steadfast belief in Sauron being a threat. So she hops in for an armor clad 3000 leagues across the sea back-stroke. All that makes complete sense of course to all of us.

On the other hand, what exactly is the plan of the greatest dark power since his master Morgoth? He took human form in the southlands as a king so that eventually he would face exile on a ship that would somehow drift several thousand leagues across the Great Sea only to be beset by a sea beast. Then of course this cover would allow him to befriend an Elven warrior and lover of beach horse-gallops. And be found by Numenoreans. And then! More intrigue before his eventual daring reveal as the dark hand behind all the evil besetting the world!

I dunno it sounds pretty fucking stupid.  Far better if Halbrand is just himself though likely doomed to Witch-Kinginess. Let the actual Sauron-in-disguise appear in the finale, which is what I felt would happen weeks ago and I hold to it, leaks be damned.

I'd have to agree with this. Despite the fact that various clues have been laid out which were ambiguous at a minimum and can even be construed as the writers showing us that he is actually Sauron, I still want the leaker on Reddit to be wrong on this and for him to be Halbrand, and not Sauron ,it would be very disappointing I suspect. His speech in episode 7 is also very much...not Sauron.

Its not Adar obviously. Its not this Dweller character ( Priestess) it seems. Unfortunately of existing characters Halbrand is the most likely but I would root for a new character.

[Argonath Diver]

My apologies to Isis and Zorral if I sounded too dismissive of Galadriels leap. I simply think it was the singular most ridiculous moment in the show and extremely hard to take seriously. It looked beautiful to be sure and I expect that was the intention more than it making a lick of sense.1

Halbrand has had some suspicious moments since his rescue, but I can't wrap my head the dark lord's grand plan to be out in the vastness of the Sundering Seas just waiting to presumably cause his own shipwreck out near where he thinks Galadriel might reject her trip west. It's just an utterly ludicrous introduction to the central character to the entire show's plotline. Halbrand simply being Halbrand and destined for Nazgulification makes more sense and keeps his reason for being so far out at sea more sensical.

In any case I'm not really taking the show too seriously and still having good fun with a lot it. Looking forward to the finale!