[SPOILERS] Rings of Power: "I am Sauron" "I'm Sauron" "I'm Sauron!"

[DaveSumm]

55 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

In the first episode there's that kid that has an outburst at Arondir and says something like Just you wait, when our king returns. So there are people who believe that the king will return. But why? Is there a prophecy? We don't know, just another sort of callback to LOTR.

Oh god this made so little sense. So the southlanders have, for a THOUSAND YEARS, been telling their children that one day, a man will appear, and lo, he shall have a pouch or something that shall haveth a logo, by which you will know he is your king, returned. And they don’t even react that excitedly considering he’s the fulfilment of a millennia old prophecy. They act like he popped out for a month or so. Why did he even imitate a king? What’s his angle there? Did he know that’s what he was doing or did he just happen to have that sigil on him? It didn’t get him anywhere, he just got a mountain exploded on him and then taken to see the elves. It feels like the writers just wanted an Aragorn, and did the bare minimum to crowbar one in. 

So how does this ring magic work exactly? Melt some Mithril, add some gold and silver and BOOM, your Mithril problems are solved? Is this Tolkien magic being wishy washy or the show failing to explain itself? How does Sauron control any of this? And is it me, or does this all rely on the staggering coincidence that just as Sauron shows up looking to forge something powerful, the elves happen to be literally just about to start trying to forge a ring? 

The whole plot of the season just fundamentally doesn’t hang together, I said since episode 1 that they don’t seem to have parsed the story through the eyes of an average audience member, and as such have omitted critical information. It’s target audience seems to be exclusively people who know Tolkien intimately but also don’t mind huge changes to his work.

[Cas Stark]

The whole 'we gotta leave middle earth BY SPRING' is moronic.  Elves are immortal.  They would have been working on a solution for centuries already, not waiting til the last possible minute on some random long shot and then they have to make it work in a matter of a few weeks.  

But then, the show just made Galadriel, who was already unsufferably rude and unlikeable into an actual villain.  Is the audience not supposed to notice this?  Is she now another 'anti hero' or some such fuckery?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

14 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Oh god this made so little sense. So the southlanders have, for a THOUSAND YEARS, been telling their children that one day, a man will appear, and lo, he shall have a pouch or something that shall haveth a logo, by which you will know he is your king, returned. And they don’t even react that excitedly considering he’s the fulfilment of a millennia old prophecy. They act like he popped out for a month or so. Why did he even imitate a king? What’s his angle there? Did he know that’s what he was doing or did he just happen to have that sigil on him? It didn’t get him anywhere, he just got a mountain exploded on him and then taken to see the elves. It feels like the writers just wanted an Aragorn, and did the bare minimum to crowbar one in. 

So how does this ring magic work exactly? Melt some Mithril, add some gold and silver and BOOM, your Mithril problems are solved? Is this Tolkien magic being wishy washy or the show failing to explain itself? How does Sauron control any of this? And is it me, or does this all rely on the staggering coincidence that just as Sauron shows up looking to forge something powerful, the elves happen to be literally just about to start trying to forge a ring? 

The whole plot of the season just fundamentally doesn’t hang together, I said since episode 1 that they don’t seem to have parsed the story through the eyes of an average audience member, and as such have omitted critical information. It’s target audience seems to be exclusively people who know Tolkien intimately but also don’t mind huge changes to his work.

This isn’t Tolkien at all.  

[The Bard of Banefort]

My understanding is that in the books, there was no love triangle and Eowyn was always into Faramir, yes? Nothing but respect for PJ, but if he wrote ROP, there’d definitely be a love triangle between Celeborn, Galadriel, and Saurbrand haha.

[Le Cygne]

23 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

My understanding is that in the books, there was no love triangle and Eowyn was always into Faramir, yes? Nothing but respect for PJ, but if he wrote ROP, there’d definitely be a love triangle between Celeborn, Galadriel, and Saurbrand haha.

PJ got it right. Ewoyn had a crush on Aragorn (this was before she met Faramir), basically because she wanted to be like him. She wanted to feel useful, fighting against the darkness (she came from a warrior culture).

She meets Faramir in the Houses of Healing, and realizes what was really going on inside her heart, she really wants not to fight, but to grow a garden (metaphor for life) with him. She and Faramir are both very alike.

It was beautiful the way their stories apart joined together. Tolkien knows his stuff.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Le Cygne

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

PJ got it right. Ewoyn had a crush on Aragorn (this was before she met Faramir), basically because she wanted to be like him. She wanted to feel useful, fighting against the darkness (she came from a warrior culture).

She meets Faramir in the Houses of Healing, and realizes what was really going on inside her heart, she really wants not to fight, but to grow a garden (metaphor for life) with him. She and Faramir are both very alike.

It was beautiful the way their stories apart joined together. Tolkien knows his stuff.

So. . . she was the OG Brienne?

Even though I like Arwen, I always thought Aragorn was a dope for not choosing Eowyn. 

[Clueless Northman]

5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

To be fair, most people use corny and cheesy interchangeably. I know I do.

To be fair, most people haven't the faintest clue about good writing and good literature, so no wonder so many of them would find it cheesy.

 

5 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Also, read any interview with the showrunners. You may think they did a bad job with the show, but they are clearly huge Tolkien nerds and care about the source material.

No, they do NOT care about the source material. If they did, they wouldn't have done such an abomination. Either they would've gone for a genuine adaptation from genuine Tolkien writings, or they wouldn't have done anything at all. Here they just pretend to care about Tolkien while butchering him and assuming they're better writers.

[SpaceChampion]

The average person on social media now thinks there are two Saurons. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

34 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

The average person on social media now thinks there are two Saurons. 

I guess the mystery box is working then!

All I have seen so far are Hot Sauron tweets, but that’s pretty funny. Who do they think the two Saurons are?

[SpaceChampion]

2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I guess the mystery box is working then!

All I have seen so far are Hot Sauron tweets, but that’s pretty funny. Who do they think the two Saurons are?

The two options in the episode.  Then apparently missed the part where they said "He's not Sauron, he's the other one!"

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:28 PM, Veltigar said:

Has anyone seen these videos online?

 

The one for the latest episode isn't out yet, but I laughed my ass off with the ones I have already seen.

This rocks. 

On 10/9/2022 at 6:01 PM, Corvinus85 said:

And Benjen Stark is another known one, no?

I thought I recognized him but I couldn't quite place him. I never got around to looking him up.

On 10/10/2022 at 8:30 AM, Caligula_K3 said:

I can already see all the possible reactions in this thread next week.

If Halbrand is Sauron: "ugh, these writers are such predictable hacks. Everybody knew this. Come up with a bigger twist. Disa should have been Sauron."

If Meteor Man is Sauron: "ugh, obviously Halbrand was supposed to be Sauron. Now they're just subverting expectations for the sake of it. These writers are such hacks."

If Eminem is Sauron: "ugh, the Silmarillion  very vaguely states that Eminem can't be Sauron for reasons x, y, z. Have these hacks even read Tolkien?"

 

 

It was both! Didn't see that coming, did ya? 

On 10/14/2022 at 2:33 PM, Corvinus85 said:

The follow your nose line is another example of how the writers have constantly tried to make these characters appear wise while spouting nonsensical stuff. Gandalf in the tunnels of Moria guiding himself by the smell of the air is one thing, but here he was standing underneath an apple tree on a hill. The evil witches had told him they came from the east so, umm, look at the sun.

Yeah, everyone know olfactory navigation doesn't work like that. Fucking hacks. 

C'mon. 

-

All in all a pretty good first seasons I think. Also nice to see the haters on this board tuned in to every single episode. Thanks for keeping it going. 

Gandalf has to be one of the most perfect tastings I've ever seen.

[Corvinus85]

9 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Yeah, everyone know olfactory navigation doesn't work like that. Fucking hacks. 

C'mon. 

You tell me how the tree doesn't cover up whatever distant smell may come from wherever, unless there is some other rich smell that way. It was just set up for the silly line to confirm the identity.

11 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Gandalf has to be one of the most perfect tastings I've ever seen.

I thought he tasted pretty bony, honestly. 

[DMC]

So I stopped watching after episode 5 because it was such a slog I just didn't feel like going through that again the last couple weeks.  In the meantime I read spoilers..well, not really, but read this thread's reaction to the finale the past couple days so I at least knew the big reveals from it. 

Today I watched the last three episodes, and I gotta say, it's weird how well lowered expectations works.  Honestly enjoyed myself for the most part.  I still can't stand that Galadriel didn't immediately tell Elrond and Celebrimbor, and I'm still mad as hell Meteor Man is Gandalf (albeit that was already pretty apparent by episode 5), and now the forging of the 9 and 7 is at best convoluted...but going into it knowing those things, it's a pretty entertaining show.  Although, they really need to stop with all the slo-mos.  It's like Zach Snyder is showrunner sometimes.

A couple small things I did like - Galadriel giving up her dagger to make the rings.  Also, Saurbrand telling Celebrimbor "consider it a gift."  That was a nice touch if you're not gonna have Annatar.

One big complaint I don't really agree with is "how fast they made the rings."  I mean, they devoted an episode - the finale - on it.  How much time do you want a TV show to devote to physically making the rings?  I don't know about you, but I don't really need too many conversations about merging alloys and montages of them melting metals and whatnot.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

You tell me how the tree doesn't cover up whatever distant smell may come from wherever, unless there is some other rich smell that way. It was just set up for the silly line to confirm the identity.

How do search and rescue dogs differentiate the smell of a target from all the other smells around them? I don't ask how that works. The dogs don't ever answer.

He fell to earth in a fucking meteor. How come his bones and organs aren't smooshed and crispy? Some of this isn't very scientific I think. I just go with it. 

3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I thought he tasted pretty bony, honestly. 

Ah, you've acquainted yourself with the taste of his bone, have you?

"Casting" I meant "casting". The autocorrect on this site is really creative sometimes.  

Edited October 16, 2022 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Corvinus85]

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

One big complaint I don't really agree with is "how fast they made the rings."  I mean, they devoted an episode - the finale - on it.  How much time do you want a TV show to devote to physically making the rings?  I don't know about you, but I don't really need too many conversations about merging alloys and montages of them melting metals and whatnot.

Half the episode was dedicated to the Harfoots and the Stranger. As someone mentioned before, Nori's goodbye scene was longer than the actual forging of the rings. And it's less about how much time is devoted to the physical process of the ring making, and how much was devoted to Halbrand playing Celebrimbor, which was not that much. How does Celebrimbor get from some pointers in alloy making to we'll be using powers of the Unseen World? Sauron tells him all that, but we don't really see why Celebrimbor eats it up so eagerly. The writers decided that the audience needed to learn Halbrand's true identity at the same time as Galadriel, except for the knowledgeable audience which received a bone with gift line. 

7 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

How do search and rescue dogs differentiate the smell of a target from all the other smells around them? I don't ask how that works. The dogs don't ever answer.

He fell to earth in a fucking meteor. How come his bones and organs aren't smooshed and crispy? Some of this isn't very scientific I think. I just go with it. 

Ah, you've acquainted yourself with the tase of his bone, have you?

"Casting" I meant "casting". The autocorrect on this site is really creative sometimes.  

Ah, the old it's fantasy so it's fine defense. I guess Gandalf has the sense of a hound.

And this site has autocorrect? Me thinks you're Sauron.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Corvinus85

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Half the episode was dedicated to the Harfoots and the Stranger. As someone mentioned before, Nori's goodbye scene was longer than the actual forging of the rings.

Ok, whatever, it was the A/main story of the episode.  Obviously in a fantasy series you're not gonna get only one storyline.

4 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

And it's less about how much time is devoted to the physical process of the ring making, and how much was devoted to Halbrand playing Celebrimbor, which was not that much. How does Celebrimbor get from some pointers in alloy making to it's using powers of the Unseen World? Sauron tells him all that, but we don't really why Celebrimbor eats it up so eagerly.

I dunno.  I somewhat agree with this.  But the show already establishes why Celebrimbor is so eager to forge this (even if that whole basis is stupid too), so I don't think he needs to be "played" too much anyway.  Honestly, I never got that from the books either - without the dumbass mithril/elves are dying/ticking clock aspect.  He's a scion of Feanor, of course he's gonna eat this stuff up.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Ah, the old it's fantasy so it's fine defense. I guess Gandalf has the sense of a hound.

And this site has autocorrect? Me thinks you're Sauron.

No, the, "It's just fantasy" defense would be establishing the physics of his olfactory navigation and then ignoring it to service the plot. Like every single action scene involving Ant-Man and the pym particles.

Maybe he has olfactory hyperopia. Maybe it's all just poetic license. Anything's possible. 

Does this site not have autocorrect? Maybe my computer is doing it to screw with me. 

[Nictarion]

11 hours ago, Darryk said:

So all the male characters in this show are dweebs except for one semi-heroic male character, who turns out to be Sauron. Lol!

Arondir is far from a dweeb. 

[Scott_N]

11 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Thanks for this really condescending post. I've never watched Merlin and didn't like The Hobbit movies, but I'm so glad you now understand that the reason some of us like the show is because we just like nonsensical schlocky shit. That must be it.

You are right. I took out my frustrations with the show by belittling you (and anyone else enjoying the show). Uncalled for and I am sorry.

[The Marquis de Leech]

My full review of episode 8. It gets grumpier as time goes on.