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[SPOILERS] Rings of Power: "I am Sauron" "I'm Sauron" "I'm Sauron!"


Ser Drewy

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11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

My understanding is that in the books, there was no love triangle and Eowyn was always into Faramir, yes? Nothing but respect for PJ, but if he wrote ROP, there’d definitely be a love triangle between Celeborn, Galadriel, and Saurbrand haha.

There’s quite a lot of fanfic that makes the love triangle Galadriel -Eowyn - Faramir.

I still like my idea of Sauron being the real father of Celebrian. “Yes, poppet, your father is the Dark Lord.”

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My issue with the Rings storyline is that all the decisions and talk around the rings happen in a handful of scenes right at the end of the season, almost as an afterthought.

’The deception’ by Halbrand was really mishandled I think. The show spent so much energy trying to deceive the viewer and hide the fact he was Sauron that they lost the opportunity to do a good job showing his seduction of Celebrimbor.

If they had said from the start ‘look this guy is Sauron’ then they could have made a point about showing a more devious and well constructed deception, make him seem more seductive and charming, and actually use his words to convince Celebrimbor to forge the rings.

Instead it just feels like he’s there in one conversation, makes an offhand comment about ores and there.. that’s his input.
 

Also, everything just seems to happen by chance to Halbrand, events fall into place through luck. He’s not all that seductive or clever.. just lucky.
 

So yeah, the writers seem to be more interested in the mystery box of Sauron than anything else, when I think a better story would have been told if they’d just been up front about who everyone is from the start.

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

So yeah, the writers seem to be more interested in the mystery box of Sauron than anything else, when I think a better story would have been told if they’d just been up front about who everyone is from the start.

They can play it as mystery, or they can play it as tragedy, but they can't do both. They tried to do both, and achieved neither.

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I know virtually nothing about LoTR lore but that scene where Halbrand meets Celebrimbor (my, what lovely ore you have) made me laugh out loud. It’s like they only told Vickers what character he was really playing when they were filming for the last episode and he immediately decided to turn the creepiness up to eleven.

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Well, at least it’s over. For now. 
I was watching the series with my GF, who doesn’t read any kind of SFF at all. I think her verdict is pretty spot on: great special effects, cheesy dialogues, cheesy characters (with few exceptions), slow moving plot, sometimes rather boring. She prefers The Witcher. 

She actually roots now for Adar and his Orcs and she cannot stand Galadriel (insufferable). She likes the dwarves, the only characters together with Adar with a larger than life aura and Charisma. I told her who Elendil, Gil-Galad are supposed to be and she had to laugh. 

Compared to Ragnar, Bjorn Ironside, Lagertha, Ivar etc (Vikings) the RoP characters (with few exceptions: Adar, Miriel, Durin the Older) give vibes of High School teachers. No aura, no charisma, no commanding presence. 

It’s an OK show, all in all, maybe in the ballpark of Hellsing, The Witcher, clearly below Vikings. Which would be an OK verdict but not for a show whose first season did cost almost 500 million USD. 

Given the resources of this Show, the outcome is subpar. The non book reader views it as mostly generic and in two years time, no one except Tolkien fans will care about this stuff. 

Ragnar from Vikings has 100 times more presence than a demi-god like Saurbrand. Tells it all. Ivar the boneless has 1000 times more evil Charme and aura  than Saurbrand. Again, tells it all. 

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@Heartofice

Your Coronarion Street comparison is spot on, we have (now had) the same format over here: Lindenstrasse. And yes, RoP is the Coronation Street of High Fantasy TV. Given the Budget though, one should have at least expected more „bang for the bucks“: better writing, better actors, greater scale. 

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3 minutes ago, Arakan said:

@Heartofice

Your Coronarion Street comparison is spot on, we have (now had) the same format over here: Lindenstrasse. And yes, RoP is the Coronation Street of High Fantasy TV. Given the Budget though, one should have at least expected more „bang for the bucks“: better writing, better actors, greater scale. 

My issue with Halbrand is that he’s not impressive at all. The acting isn’t great but he comes across like someone who’s turned up to fix your car. He’s got an odd northern English accent which marks him out as a commoner and he’s scruffy and mediocre in many ways. Hard to see how anyone is seduced or impressed by him at all.

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11 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

My issue with Halbrand is that he’s not impressive at all. The acting isn’t great but he comes across like someone who’s turned up to fix your car. He’s got an odd northern English accent which marks him out as a commoner and he’s scruffy and mediocre in many ways. Hard to see how anyone is seduced or impressed by him at all.

Look up Ragnar Lothbrok from Vikings, there is your Sauron. 
Seems too much money makes lazy. Casting choices for RoP are very questionable. 

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That closing shot of sultry Sauron brooding on a hill, his carefully styled locks tossed by the stormy breeze, looked like it belonged on the cover of a dimestore novel. Yet that's how they signaled what's ahead.

It's all wrong for Sauron, the actor was better suited for what he professed to be, a Southlander trying to survive the mess that Sauron made, and having a tough time doing so. But instead, they went with Fabio Sauron.

(And it's not the fault of the actors, it's showrunners' preference.)

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30 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

That closing shot of sultry Sauron brooding on a hill, his carefully styled locks tossed by the stormy breeze, looked like it belonged on the cover of a dimestore novel. Yet that's how they signaled what's ahead.

It's all wrong for Sauron, the actor was better suited for what he professed to be, a Southlander trying to survive the mess that Sauron made, and having a tough time doing so. But instead, they went with Fabio Sauron.

(And it's not the fault of the actors, it's the showrunners.)

Agreed. The Halbrand actor is a good one but simply not suited for the role he is supposed to play. It’s like with Tom Hanks, great actor but if I want to cast a believable mafia don with sociopathic Charme and frightening aura, he wouldn’t be my first choice. 

I know I know cliché, but someone like Timothy Chalamet in the role of Saurbrand? Yessssss :)  Or maybe as Elrond or Gil-Galad, doesn’t even matter that much. 

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Oddly, once he was revealed to not be a Southerner, he dropped his northern accent and switched to southern. But then I assume the raft scenes were filmed at the same time so it was back to northern for those. 

Thinking about it, it might’ve made more sense for Halbrand to go straight to Celibrimbor once he was off the boat. Then he gets a few episodes to wormtongue him and pad out the whole concept of the rings and why he has some secret power over them (maybe even add some way that he was responsible for the perceived threat to the elves, so he’s actually engineered this whole thing instead of gotten lucky). Galadriel meanwhile goes to the Southlands and says “oh, I met your king” … “Not sure who you met but we don’t have a king, the line went extinct a thousand years ago”. So then she hightails it back, only to arrive too late and Sauron has already forged the rings and left.

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1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

It's kinda sad that, at some point, a room full of theorically top level executives from Amazon received the story treatment of RoP and their only idea for improving that mess was "you should add hobbits".

It honestly half feels like the treatment of the Rings were notes from Amazon executives demanding they put the forging in season one, and that's why it seems tossed in for the last episode. Not saying that is what happened, but it's such a strange choice to not dedicate a season's worth of development to the Rings. Like it'd make more sense to reveal the plan to make Rings of Power this episode and have Celebrimbor produce an "essay" ring, then Gil-Galad gives the go ahead and S2 focuses on the proper forging. 

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1 hour ago, Arakan said:

The Halbrand actor is a good one but simply not suited for the role he is supposed to play. 

I'd like to know what you are basing this on.

Because it seems to me that a lot of armchair casting directors are making a whole bunch of absurd proclamations, based on fuck knows what.

It also seems to me that this is an unknown actor who was signed up to do a Season 1 job of portraying a charismatic badass, masquerading as a tragic, romantic hero.

Well, he totally sold me, and millions of others, on that particular role.

So please tell me what, in your expert opinion, screams that this guy is totally unsuited to playing a dark lord?

I mean, who would you prefer? Eric fucking Roberts?

I'm so tired of this shit.

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13 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

This rocks. 

I thought I recognized him but I couldn't quite place him. I never got around to looking him up.

It was both! Didn't see that coming, did ya? 

Yeah, everyone know olfactory navigation doesn't work like that. Fucking hacks. :rolleyes:

C'mon. 

-

All in all a pretty good first seasons I think. Also nice to see the haters on this board tuned in to every single episode. Thanks for keeping it going. :thumbsup:

Gandalf has to be one of the most perfect tastings I've ever seen.

I read summaries and watched what clips were available for free.  I didn’t watch the show.

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25 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

I'm so tired of this shit.

Yah, me too.  I wasn't going to weigh in here because I don't really have anything to complain about.  I read the LotR in high school and geez that's going back... well, decades.  So when the Silmarillion was published. I jumped all over it.  What a difficult read that was with all its biblical sounding language.  It was like reading the Book of Begats from the bible.  Not what I wanted or expected.  The characters were one dimensional and well, larger than life, legendary.  If this is someone's entry point  into Tolkein's world today; I'm not sure they would stick around for more.  It does require scholarly knowledge and interpretation from those who have studied the lore.  I'm not a complete dunderhead.  I do know there aren't two Saurons in this show.   I have appreciated listening to livestreams by those who know the lore far better than I do.  It's part of the experience and I prefer it to be a positive one.

I didn't have expectations that this would be an adaptation in the purest form.  I'm not sure that is possible.  So I've given the writers and show runners a wide latitude for inventing backstory for some of the characters and I've given myself permission to enjoy the story they present.   I would have preferred it to be ten episodes instead of eight.  I'm not sure why this kind of pressure was put on the show runners.  Most likely financial.  I'd like to see an expanded version on DVD which includes deleted scenes.  It seems a little too fractured as it stands.

The Galadriel of the first and second age is not the same Galadriel we know from the third age.  I don't expect her to arrive at a place of wisdom without some struggle.  This treatment seems similar to what the show runners of HotD have done with the character of Viserys.  He's far more engaging in this treatment than in the book, even for the author himself.

So, the character of Sauron is interesting to me by the actor's interpretation.  I've always felt uneasy with his blank face and hard stare until he changes the mask he's wearing and starts manipulating those around him. I feel like I'm watching a sociopath in action.  His power of inception is formidable.

As for the Stranger; it's now heavily implied that this is Gandalf, even if he is never named.  Yes, this is pure invention; but I am intrigued.   He is called The Other, the Istar, definately a wizard.  But why The Other.  Other to what?  How do the Dark Elves know what he is?  And who are they?  Are they Morgoth's creations somewhere in Rhun?  Galadriel tells Adar that she will find all of his kind and kill them.  But these elves are quite different than Adar.  Perhaps Adar's is Sauron's creation.  I'm guessing that the Stranger's purpose in this story is to confront the rest of this sect.  His awakening powers are certainly formidable as well.  The acting was certainly excellent for someone using only facial expression and body language.

So I think this could be an interesting and intriguing adaption going forward; if only people would give themselves permission to enjoy it.  By all means, point out where it departs from the legengarium; but do it in a spirit of good will and education, keeping an eye on attracting casual viewers to the books.

Someone said we are not Gatekeepers and damaging someone's positive experience should be avoided.

 

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24 minutes ago, LynnS said:

As for the Stranger; it's now heavily implied that this is Gandalf, even if he is never named.  Yes, this is pure invention; but I am intrigued.   He is called The Other, the Istar, definately a wizard.  But why The Other.  Other to what?  How do the Dark Elves know what he is?  And who are they?  Are they Morgoth's creations somewhere in Rhun?  Galadriel tells Adar that she will find all of his kind and kill them.  But these elves are quite different than Adar.  Perhaps Adar's is Sauron's creation.  I'm guessing that the Stranger's purpose in this story is to confront the rest of this sect.  His awakening powers are certainly formidable as well.  The acting was certainly excellent for someone using only facial expression and body language.

Considering that the three witches don't have pointy ears, I'm pretty sure they were human. The inhabitants of Rhun are for the most part human. (There may be dwarves in the mountains there)

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8 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Considering that the three witches don't have pointy ears, I'm pretty sure they were human. The inhabitants of Rhun are for the most part human. (There may be dwarves in the mountains there)

OH!  I did not notice the ears.  That's very interesting.

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10 hours ago, Scott_N said:

You are right. I took out my frustrations with the show by belittling you (and anyone else enjoying the show). Uncalled for and I am sorry.

No worries! Thanks for the apology. But worse things have been said on the internet :)

About trying to figure out where Amazon intervened in the show: I have no proof of this, but I suspect the idea that the elves will literally die if they don't get mithril came from higher up. It seems like the sort of thing a studio exec would put in to artificially raise the stakes.

 But again, I have no proof here.

 

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I tried so hard to love this show. I watched every episode twice. I enjoyed the pretty pictures. I put the soundtrack CD in my Amazon cart. I developed favorites (the Stranger and Nori). I even saved a shipping bag from Amazon with Rings of Power on it as a souvenir! I tried so hard to love it. Overlooking the bad, celebrating the good.

And then came the finale. And it was a cringefest, even apart from the fact that it was contrary to Tolkien at every turn.

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