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[SPOILERS] Rings of Power: "I am Sauron" "I'm Sauron" "I'm Sauron!"


Ser Drewy

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Well the simple fact to indicate that Halbrand = Sauron is that he has suffered a wound that apparently needs Elvish healing and then he got on a horse to ride with Galadriel to go get that. And he'll ride all the way to Eregion from just west of Mordor judging by the season finale trailer and survive. How do they cross the Anduin?

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7 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Well the simple fact to indicate that Halbrand = Sauron is that he has suffered a wound that apparently needs Elvish healing and then he got on a horse to ride with Galadriel to go get that. And he'll ride all the way to Eregion from just west of Mordor judging by the season finale trailer and survive. How do they cross the Anduin?

Not saying that Halbrand isn't Sauron but the above logic tells us very little. Going by the quality of the writing in the show thus far, one could easily attribute the above to shit writing. Galadriel was going to swim from near Valinor back to Middle-earth after all. Then in episode 6, she and the rest of them in that village get hit full force by a massive pyroclastic flow but most appear to have survived and the worst they seem to have suffered is being covered in ash.

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43 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Not saying that Halbrand isn't Sauron but the above logic tells us very little. Going by the quality of the writing in the show thus far, one could easily attribute the above to shit writing. Galadriel was going to swim from near Valinor back to Middle-earth after all. Then in episode 6, she and the rest of them in that village get hit full force by a massive pyroclastic flow but most appear to have survived and the worst they seem to have suffered is being covered in ash.

heh, my previous comment wasn't without a dose of sarcasm.

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I can already see all the possible reactions in this thread next week.

If Halbrand is Sauron: "ugh, these writers are such predictable hacks. Everybody knew this. Come up with a bigger twist. Disa should have been Sauron."

If Meteor Man is Sauron: "ugh, obviously Halbrand was supposed to be Sauron. Now they're just subverting expectations for the sake of it. These writers are such hacks."

If Eminem is Sauron: "ugh, the Silmarillion  very vaguely states that Eminem can't be Sauron for reasons x, y, z. Have these hacks even read Tolkien?"

 

 

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1 hour ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I can already see all the possible reactions in this thread next week.

If Halbrand is Sauron: "ugh, these writers are such predictable hacks. Everybody knew this. Come up with a bigger twist. Disa should have been Sauron."

If Meteor Man is Sauron: "ugh, obviously Halbrand was supposed to be Sauron. Now they're just subverting expectations for the sake of it. These writers are such hacks."

If Eminem is Sauron: "ugh, the Silmarillion  very vaguely states that Eminem can't be Sauron for reasons x, y, z. Have these hacks even read Tolkien?"

Suprisingly it is indeed possible for all available options to suck. Your critique of the critics does not work.

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1 hour ago, 3CityApache said:

Theoretically there are also options that we still won't know who Sauron is after the last episode, or he will be neither of the candidates. But that would also result in a fair amount of grumble no doubt.

Honestly I think that would be for the best. The show did a horrible job setting him up.

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2 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I can already see all the possible reactions in this thread next week.

If Halbrand is Sauron: "ugh, these writers are such predictable hacks. Everybody knew this. Come up with a bigger twist. Disa should have been Sauron."

If Meteor Man is Sauron: "ugh, obviously Halbrand was supposed to be Sauron. Now they're just subverting expectations for the sake of it. These writers are such hacks."

If Eminem is Sauron: "ugh, the Silmarillion  very vaguely states that Eminem can't be Sauron for reasons x, y, z. Have these hacks even read Tolkien?"

 

 

Are you suggesting any of those takes are problematic?

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2 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I can already see all the possible reactions in this thread next week.

If Halbrand is Sauron: "ugh, these writers are such predictable hacks. Everybody knew this. Come up with a bigger twist. Disa should have been Sauron."

If Meteor Man is Sauron: "ugh, obviously Halbrand was supposed to be Sauron. Now they're just subverting expectations for the sake of it. These writers are such hacks."

If Eminem is Sauron: "ugh, the Silmarillion  very vaguely states that Eminem can't be Sauron for reasons x, y, z. Have these hacks even read Tolkien?"

 

 

That is true, but I would suggest it's true because the show is poorly constructed, so that every Sauron herring out there will be a disappointment.  That is not the fault of the audience but of the show.

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6 hours ago, farerb said:

Why people didn't care for the idea that HBO would remake The Lord of the Rings as a TV show? It could have been more faithful than the movies.

I'm not sure about that. Sure, they could have included Tom Bombadil, the barrow-wights, Glorfindel and the Scouring etc, but I suspect they'd have really rowed back on the battles and action. The novel has dramatically less action than the films and "a more faithful" adaptation would risk being more boring (to a casual audience). The Council of Elrond would be like a whole episode by itself if you go by the book, whilst the Battle of Helm's Deep would last about eight minutes.

The Jackson movies are flawed in various ways but I think they managed almost the impossible of balancing the lore, worldbuilding, action and characterisation in a way that would be virtually impossible to pull off again so successfully. Not to mention that most Hollywood companies have now strict rules on how many women and minorities are in a project (not just because of progressiveness, but also the sheer mind-boggling demand at the moment for writers, actors etc that can only be overcome by not setting any gender or ethnic limits on casting), which for another direct adaptation of LotR would be far more trouble than it's worth.

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I think the only thing that would really being satisfactory is that the being Adar killed is someone he thought was Sauron, but it actually wasn't, and that being became Halbrand.   Maybe Halbrand will later will become one of the Nazgul.

lol maybe Halbrand is a werewolf. 

If the Witch King wasn't canonically human, I would have thought Adar would become it. 

 

Really, the only interest I have in this series is who are the 9 nazgul?  They apparently are called:  The Witch-king of Angmar, The Dark Marshal, Khamûl The Easterling, The Betrayer, The Shadow Lord, The Undying, The Dwimmerlaik, The Tainted and The Knight of Umbar.

If Halbrand isn't one of those, I can't imagine what the writers are thinking.

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

That is true, but I would suggest it's true because the show is poorly constructed, so that every Sauron herring out there will be a disappointment.  That is not the fault of the audience but of the show.

I have trouble understanding why Halbrand being Sauron would be a disappointment. He's been set up for that role very well, and it would lead to lots of interesting plot and character possibilities in season 2.

Quote

Are you suggesting any of those takes are problematic?

Honestly, yes. I'm not saying everyone needs to like or love the show. There are definitely parts of it that I don't like or wish had been done differently. And if Sauron is revealed to be Halbrand and you think that's the wrong artistic choice, sure, that's fine. But I'm pretty fed up with the internet form of hypercriticism that is never satisfied with anything, and that, more importantly, decides that anything the viewer doesn't like is a result of writers being "hacks," "idiots," or "lazy." Y'all try to write and produce a complex epic fantasy show and see how easy it is. Talented, good-willed, hard working people are capable of creating mediocre art. But somehow, that possibility has been lost in most internet critical discourse. I seem to like House of the Dragon a lot less than a lot of this board and am frustrated with many of the choices Condal and Sapochnik made, but that doesn't mean I'm arrogant enough to think they made those choices because they're idiots.

The greatest irony, of course, being that the only modern epic fantasy show that has so far been both overwhelmingly critically and commercially praised was produced and written by two people the internet hypercritics have decided are the most idiotic hacks to ever write a word - Dan and Dave.

 

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2 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Talented, good-willed, hard working people are capable of creating mediocre art. But somehow, that possibility has been lost in most internet critical discourse. I seem to like House of the Dragon a lot less than a lot of this board and am frustrated with many of the choices Condal and Sapochnik made, but that doesn't mean I'm arrogant enough to think they made those choices because they're idiots.

Talented people can really only create quality art if given the right circumstances and tools to do so. It’s really hard to blame anyone specifically for the deficiencies of this show. I get the sense that it was a monumental task, harder than people imagine and there was a lot of pressure and constraints which meant that it hasn’t lived up to the potential the enormous budget promised. 
 

I don’t know exactly what those constraints are, but clearly something contextually is making it harder for the creators. 
 

I also never really bore any real grudge against D&D for GoT. Again, circumstance really made it a lot harder for them and I guess they weren’t up to that task, but it’s always hard to point the finger at any one person when these productions are made by so many people.

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10 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

If Eminem is Sauron: "ugh, the Silmarillion  very vaguely states that Eminem can't be Sauron for reasons x, y, z. Have these hacks even read Tolkien?"

Well back then Eminem did have that one shot, one opportunity to seize everything he she ever wanted, but she couldn't capture it, she let is slip. 

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