[Spoilers] Episode 108 Discussion

[Ran]

Book spoilers and episode discussion here.

[RumHam]

Holy shit they went overboard with Viserys' deterioration.

[zajaz]

I kinda prefer the book version of Viserys dying because he got obese. Show Viserys looks like he was cursed to turn into the love child of the Cryptkeeper and the Phantom of the Opera.

Also, this episode just convinced me into ignoring the first five episodes of this show. Emily Carey's more naive and vulnerable version of Alicent (or, as I call her now, Alisaint) just seems like a waste of time in hindsight.

Also, am I misremembering, or did Rhaenyra had Daemon kill Vaemond and then feed his corpse to Syrax in the books?

Edited October 10, 2022 by zajaz

[Corvinus85]

Applause for Paddy Considine, who from episode 1 to 8 gave solid, even superb performances, of incredible range. I hope he is recognized at various awards for this.

Applause also to Ser Vaemond, this year's Westeros Darwin Award winner and dumbest man in the realm. And for giving us shocking death #35. I'm not entirely sure how Corlys would be willing to fight on the side of the man who killed his brother, but considering that Luke is his heir, and Corlys ultimately cares about legacy, I guess he'll have no choice.

So Viserys unwittingly and confusingly gives Alicent her cassus belli for the war. She was almost ready to stamp down on her pride, it seemed. OK, fine, since they introduced it in the show, it wasn't a bad re-use of it.

Really enjoyed the music in this episode. Viserys hobbling into the throne room was a great scene between Paddy's acting and the music. Same for Viserys looking over his family at the feast one last time.

So we get Viserys II, yay, alongside Aegon the Younger. But still no Daeron. Though little Joffrey wasn't at the feast, nore Haelena's kids, so I would like to believe there is a young Daeron running around the keep.

[Corvinus85]

5 minutes ago, zajaz said:

Also, am I misremembering, or did Rhaenyra had Daemon kill Vaemond and then feed his corpse to Syrax in the books?

Viserys had Vaemond's tongue ripped out as he had threatened to do. I don't recall if he was executed later. I think he's still alive past this stuff.

[Mark Antony]

Ya in F&B Rhaenyra does have Daemon execute Vaemond and then they feed his corpse to Syrax. A bunch of the other Velaryon family then petition the King at Kings Landing and get their tongues removed .

Good episode. Not sure about the decision to have Alicent misunderstand Viserys at the end. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Mark Antony

[Chad Vader]

Viserys had his and his wifes tongue out as well. The couple who referred to his grand kids as Strongs

Edited October 10, 2022 by Chad Vader

[zajaz]

Also, was it just me, or did it look like Ser Crispin Cole was sparring with Aemond as played by Crispin Glover for a second there?

Edited October 10, 2022 by zajaz

[RumHam]

I'm so glad that Daemon was shown being somewhat compassionate or at least pitying of his brothers condition. They've made him too much of a dick, especially last episode with "[the gods have] been especially cruel to you."

I love the little moments of setup between him and Aemond. It's just looks and body language but it's there. 

9 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Good episode. Not sure about the decision to have Alicent misunderstand Viserys at the end. 

I'm less bother by that than the feint that like "maybe the princess and the queen can get along!" immediately followed by that. 

[Mladen]

I feel like there were too many voices about Alicent in the script room. It seems they wanted to give her depth like Cersei was given in the original series, but somewhere along the way, they kinda forgot it (like Dany with Euron's fleet in Season 8 ) and then backpedaled it.

At the beginning of the Season, I really thought Alicent would have nuances of Cersei. As was said, there is a clear disconnect between Cooke and Carey's versions of Alicent. I really wish they stick to Alicent as a frightened woman turning into ambitious Queen who wants to protect her children. I thought they would make the choice between Blacks and Greens a bit more difficult, but no. 

That said, I liked this episode. Viserys and his decay, that entrance, and music, than supper. Nicely done. A great send-off. 

[nara]

First, glad to see a fellow woman of Indian descent as director!  
 

Recasts:

Love the new Jace and Baela!

Ok with new Luke and Rhaena (though the latter seems to be wearing a very heavy wig for her small head and delicate neck! That’s gotta violate some labor law…)

Why does Aemond look so old? And frankly, if they are trying to create some doubt as to whether Viserys or Daemon is his father, they’ve done a good job with casting someone who looks a lot like the latter. 

Hate the new Aegon. He looks too young and doesn’t resemble the previous one. Not issue with the actor himself, but he looks much younger than Aemond .

No real opinion on Helaena since they have barely included her.

Little Aegon and Viserys are cuties l, of course.

Moving on…

Jace is my favorite character in the book and he did not disappoint. I really appreciate his commitment to learning his duties and behaving like a king. I guess a little strong blood is a good thing. Diplomacy, baby.

Aemond has now eroded any admiration and sympathy I had for him. That was quick.

Viserys was the man in this episode. Will miss him! The lost eye was a shocker though.

The end of Vaemond took me by surprise. RIP-once again, honesty=death in Westeros.

Was I the  only one pissed that no one bent the knee when the king entered?

Daemon’s sensitivity was strong this episode (except for when he chopped most of a head off). 
 

Interesting what they did with Alicent and making her believe in Viserys’s true wishes. I am curious as to what the at poster who thinks the show favors The Blacks thinks about that.

Enjoyed the family dinner, but I wish they gave Aegon some redeeming value. Speaking of which, rape? He was already unlikeable… And I confess to being a total mark in believing that Alicent was being kind to Dyana.

Edited October 10, 2022 by nara

[zajaz]

Also, I just thought about this: is Vaemond supposed to be a dark foil to Ned? Losing his head and all? It's a shame that, unlike Ned, he does not have a daughter who then vows vengeance against Daemon.

[teej6]

Okay, from this episode it seems like Rhaenyra believes Laenor was murdered. So she was not in on the fake death plan? This is odd. 

[Colonel Green]

28 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

 for this.Applause also to Ser Vaemond, this year's Westeros Darwin Award winner and dumbest man in the realm. And for giving us shocking death #35. I'm not entirely sure how Corlys would be willing to fight on the side of the man who killed his brother, but considering that Luke is his heir, and Corlys ultimately cares about legacy, I guess he'll have no choice.

Vaemond was trying to override Corlys' wishes when the man was on his deathbed; I'm not sure how sentimental Corlys will be about him once he recovers.

[Winterfell is Burning]

9 minutes ago, Mladen said:

I feel like there were too many voices about Alicent in the script room. It seems they wanted to give her depth like Cersei was given in the original series, but somewhere along the way, they kinda forgot it (like Dany with Euron's fleet in Season 8 ) and then backpedaled it.

At the beginning of the Season, I really thought Alicent would have nuances of Cersei. As was said, there is a clear disconnect between Cooke and Carey's versions of Alicent. I really wish they stick to Alicent as a frightened woman turning into ambitious Queen who wants to protect her children.

 

I agree, there's a clear disconnect between these two versions (Emily Carey's was the most sympathetic character in the show probably, Cooke's much less so, even unhinged at times), and also between the two versions of Rhaenyra, though a smaller one.

It's not that the performances aren't great on their own, but feel at times different characters.

This season would definitively be better off with more episodes, or leaving the actual conflict for season 2, perhaps only then introducing the older versions of the characters.

4 minutes ago, nara said:

 

Enjoyed the family dinner, but I wish they gave Aegon some redeeming value. Speaking of which, rape? He was already unlikeable… And I confess to being a total mark in believing that Alicent was being kind to Dyana.

 

She was kind, because as we see in the confrontation with Aegon, she's genuinely disgusted by what he did...and yet would have done a lot more to keep the girl silent, if needed be.

 

 

 

[lakin1013]

3 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Okay, from this episode it seems like Rhaenyra believes Laenor was murdered. So she was not in on the fake death plan? This is odd. 

I thought it was all in the wording.  Rh said "I was not involved in any plot to kill Laenor."  Which, of course, she can say truthfully because Laenor was not killed. At least is what I thought I heard.  

[teej6]

12 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I'm less bother by that than the feint that like "maybe the princess and the queen can get along!" immediately followed by that. 

Yes, the whole thing did not play out well. Seems like an attempt to trick the viewer. So what are they trying to imply? Alicent (the one who tells her son his life is forfeit if his sister becomes queen) would have accepted a Queen Rhaenyra if not for Viserys deathbed rambling? 

[Corvinus85]

7 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Okay, from this episode it seems like Rhaenyra believes Laenor was murdered. So she was not in on the fake death plan? This is odd. 

Rhaenyra once again shamelessly lied and minced words in front of the weirwood tree.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

That was an interesting episode.  A peace undone by asshole kids and a King addled by Milk of the Poppy.  

Did Viserys have leprosy? It certainly looked like he did.

[DMC]

So, Helaena wins Best Toast hands down!