[Spoilers] Episode 108 Discussion

[sifth]

Man, I absolutely love Jace on this show. He's such a good kid. Weird how I never got this feeling from the character in the book.

Edited October 10, 2022 by sifth

[Raksha 2014]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

He seems fine enough, but the passion already seems to have cooled down on his part, if it was ever there. Which is fine, too. Their marriage is not going to be a success, after all.

 

Daemon has given Rhaenyra two children, fairly recently and she is carrying a third.  Just because they're not sneaking off to have sex while visiting her horribly sickened father doesn't mean that they still don't have strong emotional and sexual feelings for each other.  I think Daemon loves Rhaenyra as much as he's capable of loving any woman.  He eventually becomes interested in Nettles (either paternally or romantically; but Rhaenyra takes it for the latter); but I imagine that if he hadn't been killed, they would have reconciled.  The only one of Daemon's marriages or romances in Fire & Blood that seemed to hold him was his relationship with Laena Velaryon.  House of the Dragon seems to be going out of its way to make Daemon & Rhaenyra its central romantic couple; so it will be interesting to see if Daemon pays attention to Nettles.

[teej6]

I just rewatched the episode and to me the scene where Daemon helps Viserys up the steps (he say’s “Come On”) and then places the crown back on Viserys head is so moving. There was love between these brothers but the lost years spent on anger and mistrust was such a shame. That scene just showed what this relationship could have been. Matt Smith perfectly captures the pain Daemon feels in seeing his brother so sick.

Edited October 10, 2022 by teej6

[RhaenysBee]

I’m trying to pull my thoughts together. Let’s start with the things I didn’t like just so I can stabilize my emotional state. 

female costume design is a disgrace in this show, while male costume design is quite impressive. Not sure how they do it but they do it. The one thing I appreciate is that servants have sensible clothing. Not that flimsy camisole they did in GoT (Global warming much?). 

The compulsive recasting is killing me. Okay, go down that road, but maybe go down sober and make it make sense? Why in the world couldn’t Ty Tennant play “adult” Aegon? Why? Yes you had to age up the younger kids, because 10 and 16 aren’t interchangeable. The new actor doesn’t have half of Ty’s presence and they look virtually nothing alike. Aemond looks a fair bit older than he should be, but at least I can buy that they are the same person with his younger counterpart if I squint. Dark (the German sci-fi) did this the way it should be done. But fine, recast everybody every episode because you want to make sure that we know time is flying by. For the love of everything dear, Criston Cole looks the exact same. 20 years and you gave him a stubble? He should be greying! Otto Hightower hasn’t aged a day. In 16 years, he lost his comb. Daemon cut his hair. Rhaenys didn’t even cut her hair, she has the same ridiculous updo. Stop this! Redesign the bloody characters, it’s been 20 years! Oh this pisses me off. No credibility whatsoever. 

And in spite of the emotional impact, Viserys’s condition was an utter mess as well. Gradual decay would have been more convincing, he should have had at least issues on the right side of the face at the 10 year time jump. And again, we should have seen him with maesters last episode or got some exposition about how his condition progresses and why. Make up something, or just address that the maesters don’t know either why it slows or accelerates at times. The face prosthetics were way overdone and weren’t realistic at all. Acting, cinematography and sound had to save it.

Did Lucerys order that pig for his 16-18ish cousin who looks like he could murder three adults with one strike in an alley? Or was that accidental? You wouldn’t be as stupid a little shit to watch that guy fight in the courtyard and then pull that bloody prank on him. You wouldn’t even laugh. You weren’t even there. What the hell now? 

Who is this unfortunate soul that Aegon married? Did Alicent poison/kill that servant or just pay her off?

oh and I can’t bloody believe that I must remember the existence of Daemon’s lady friend after all. At least we can be sure she’s some sort of priestess or mage so at least for her it’s okay not to age. How refreshing. 

things I liked: 

Well Viserys. My goodness, every damn second. Paddy Considine acted the heart out of that character and everybody paled in comparison. The emotional experience is still too fresh and raw so I may come back later to gush over his scenes. 

For the first time in this series: Daemon. When he sliced Vaemond’s head in half because he called Rhaenyra a whore. When he rolled his eyes during the prayers. When he controlled Rhaenyra’s sons with one glance and shut down Aemond with another. When you could read from his face that he just met the new him in his half eyed kid. But most of all how he handled Viserys. There was respect, love and empathy. He didn’t coddle him like Alicent, because he knew Viserys wanted to be a patriarch one last time and show that he was still able. Yet he watched for when his brother would actually need help and he helped as an equal. He almost said, be sensible, when Viserys dropped his crown climbing the iron throne and walked him up. It was utterly moving and beautiful and Matt Smith was the only actor who reached up to the bar Paddy set. You could see the love, the pain, the deep respect for his brother. What has become of this man who he had looked up to in spite of all conflict and rivalry and difference in character and belief? 

I kinda liked Rhaenyra’s moments of vulnerability, though I still dislike her as a person. 

I kinda liked Rhaenys and the fact that he supported Lucerys for her granddaughters. 

Paddy Considine shined on everybody else and the respect and amazement on their faces as they watched this old sick king be king was totally real as they watched this insanely talented actor work his magic in the scene. 

Interior sets are chefs kiss. Absolutely gorgeous design complemented by skilled and beautiful cinematography.

Oh and I also like how Alicent went off on Aegon and told him he wasn’t her son because of how much she related to the servant. That was important for both Alicent and Aegon as characters. 

 

I find it quite difficult to accept that the best thing in the series is gone. 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by RhaenysBee

[Tha_Prince_Ali]

7 hours ago, Lightoftheast said:

Very boring.

Alicent didnt need to hear that stupid ass prophecy ramblings not even 5% viewer take it seriously.She already has enough reason given brutality of Daemon and her son's strong claim which from commoners to high lords has a good following. Doesnt make her good or likeable.

Daemon is turned into this medium of gobbling Rhaenyra's bad traits. She doesnt pass her cruel order like in FAB by her uncle-husband to kill Vaemond nor she feeds him to her Syrax. She supports her way-ward black husband and fully admires and supports his tastes. She is created as a character to fill out every boxes for tv audience against great evil "Trump voter" faction as the showrunner said.

Alicent is already a mad & evil woman attacking her step daughter and keeping Larys while fully knowing his deeds. All the Mushroom tales on Aegon is made true but for sure there wont be any brothel queens or big role for Daemon in Blood and Cheese episode as it'll reflect badly on her for audicence in this instance just as the murder of Laenor would have.

Its funny how they say all bad tales of black is green propaganda. When in aftermath we have Rhaenyra's son as King, his sister wed to Lord Hightower's brother and Lord Hightower being BFFs with Alyn Velaryon.
Mushroom becomes true source when it comes to his tales of green faction but not when its tales about  Blacks. 

 

With respect, it feels like you took that off-handed “Trump supporter” thing personally. The Greens are treated with far more nuance in this show than George afforded them in the books. 
 

The expectation that George or the writers treat both sides of a conflict as equally good/bad is pretty dang odd in of itself, but they’ve indulged that expectation regardless. They’re allowed to have villains in their story if they want villains. We don’t complain that Joffery or the Boltons are too immoral compared to the Starks. That the Bloody Mummers and the Mountain’s Boys are cartoonish. 
 

It’s so freakin weird to me how people take a partisan stance on the Dance and then work backwards from there to form their opinions and support their “team”, and then get mad when they’re written in a way that doesn’t conform to their expectations. This isn’t Twilight.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Tha_Prince_Ali said:

It’s so freakin weird to me how people take a partisan stance on the Dance and then work backwards from there to form their opinions and support their “team”, and then get mad when they’re written in a way that doesn’t conform to their expectations. This isn’t Twilight.

Me too, it's really juvenile.

[Corvinus85]

32 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

Who is this unfortunate soul that Aegon married? Did Alicent poison/kill that servant or just pay her off?
 

Aegon married his sister, Haelena. Which is why her little dinner speech was such a burn and the camera partially focused on him. The servant girl was fired, paid off to keep quiet, and given moon tea to ensure she wasn't going to have a baby.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

38 minutes ago, Tha_Prince_Ali said:

This isn’t Twilight.

Team Jacob are definitely the Blacks, though.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Aegon married his sister, Haelena. Which is why her little dinner speech was such a burn and the camera partially focused on him.

I'm still chuckling about her toast.  The way she deadpanned it was just awesome.

[Arataniello]

Interesting factoid - Aegon II's naked buttocks have now been played by two different actors.  He is only character to have this unique "achievement".

 

[RumHam]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

the fact that he may have ended up with a noseless baseborn girl as his final lover in the book

Nettles has a nose, for the record! It was cut I assume like Nicholson in Chinatown.

Definitely the character I'm looking forward too the most. "Sheepstealer" is a huge part of it but also I love that she ends up being the only real dragonrider for a bit there and instead of trying to conquer anything she just fucks off to live in a cave with her dragon. 

[butterweedstrover]

1 hour ago, Tha_Prince_Ali said:

With respect, it feels like you took that off-handed “Trump supporter” thing personally. The Greens are treated with far more nuance in this show than George afforded them in the books. 
 

The expectation that George or the writers treat both sides of a conflict as equally good/bad is pretty dang odd in of itself, but they’ve indulged that expectation regardless. They’re allowed to have villains in their story if they want villains. We don’t complain that Joffery or the Boltons are too immoral compared to the Starks. That the Bloody Mummers and the Mountain’s Boys are cartoonish. 
 

It’s so freakin weird to me how people take a partisan stance on the Dance and then work backwards from there to form their opinions and support their “team”, and then get mad when they’re written in a way that doesn’t conform to their expectations. This isn’t Twilight.

This post is so freaking weird as you are using contradictions to paint over a systemic flaw in the show without referencing what argument you take issue with. Vaguely mentioning Twilight to try and belittle substantive critique as juvenile is sort of weird given that you have no vested interest in defending the show so why use such charged rhetoric?

It's almost as if a duel narrative that relies on two factions to frame the story should not excise the moral argument of one side to bolster the popularity of the other. 

In your own post you are scatter-shot by calling the show's interpretation of the Greens "nuanced" (without providing any reason as to why) and then make noise about one dimensional villains in the original series as an excuse for something you don't believe the show did.  

Incidentally, I think compared to a source material that offers no definitive motivation, the show actual does worse by zeroing in on Alicent's character by definitively arguing that she has no reason to steal the throne and then nuking her character development for sake of a misunderstanding over some extraneous prophecy. 

A better show wouldn't have felt the need to delete five episodes of build up to protect Rhaenyra's character from any culpability so viewers are less conflicted about supporting her, especially when in doing so they remove any possible moral argument why the Greens would want to usurp her.  

 

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Me too, it's really juvenile.

Who pray tell has been acting juvenile on this thread? I can't find any of these perspectives so far. Maybe you can point out some users who are engaged in criticism of the show you deem unworthy?

Edited October 10, 2022 by butterweedstrover

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

The show REALLY needed an episode between 5 and 6. This one should be the 9th.

The show needed an episode to set up the Rhaenyra-Harwin thing as well as Daemon-Laena, and deal with the Criston Cole nonsense situation. That just doesn't work.

It would also have greatly helped the show if there had been another episode between 7 and 8, with them having one episode for the funeral and the Aemond incident, and another for Laenor's decision to fake his death and the Rhaenyra-Daemon marriage. The second episode could then have also included the fallout of the Rhaenyra-Daemon marriage in KL and Corlys leaving for the Stepstones and Baela becoming Rhaenys' ward.

There are just too many blank spaces there, too many things that don't really fit together.

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

I agree entirely. Even after she's nominated heir, she shows no interest in actually learning how to rule.

Nah, it is also kind of naive that Jace 'learns how to rule' or is 'oh, so interested in the ruling business' because he is eager to learn a dead language. A dead language that won't help him to rule at all.

Rhaenyra grew up in the buzzing, crowded court of KL, a place where there are a lot of distractions, Jace basically as a recluse on Dragonstone, a place where children have literally nothing interesting to do as Aerea showed us in FaB.

He is actually ill prepared to be king, considering he has not the slightest direct experience with the government of the Realm.

I'd rather view the whole thing as gendered here - Jace is very secure in his role as heir, since he is male and the eldest son. Rhaenyra was female and expected never to be named the heir (even feeling kind of bad that she supplanted Daemon in that role), and also to be eventually replaced in the role by her younger half-brother.

She is only secure in her role in episodes 4 & 5 ... and then the plot focuses almost exclusively on her sex life and marital matches, and not on her involvement in the government of the Realm.

They could have done a better job establishing her abilities as heir, but they are there, kind of between the lines. Her intelligence is clear, her ability to learn, too, and pretty much all advice she gives is sound. Especially the stuff she says in episode 2 and 6.

The show should have dared to make Viserys two seasons - then many more things could have been fleshed out, including the Strongs and Rhaenyra's development.

[Leticia Stark]

Family tree posted by the official account on Twitter and no mention of Daeron, so I guess he’s not in the show.

 

 

[Chataya de Fleury]

37 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Aegon married his sister, Haelena. Which is why her little dinner speech was such a burn and the camera partially focused on him. The servant girl was fired, paid off to keep quiet, and given moon tea to ensure she wasn't going to have a baby.

Moon tea seems to be the most amazing thing ever…apparently, this non-invasive option is:

Readily available, inexpensive, works every time the first time, and no side effects. DAMN. 

If only it were that easy in the real world.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Who pray tell has been acting juvenile on this thread?

I didn't say anyone was "acting" juvenile on this thread, I said the perspective described by The Prince Ali is really juvenile.  Because it is.

19 minutes ago, Arataniello said:

Interesting factoid - Aegon II's naked buttocks have now been played by two different actors.  He is only character to have this unique "achievement".

I mean, we really don't know who has been playing Aegon's ass, do we?  Entirely possible it could be a model, like Joey in Friends.

2 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Family tree posted by the official account on Twitter and no mention of Daeron, so I guess he’s not in the show.

Not sure I'd jump to that conclusion just yet - not gonna treat a Twitter post as cannon, albeit I agree it's not a good sign. 

Anyway, if so, booooooooo!!!

[Ingelheim]

4 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Family tree posted by the official account on Twitter and no mention of Daeron, so I guess he’s not in the show.

 

 

I was going to post the same but you beat me to it.

Well, nothing that I hadn't assumed by now. It was well past time for him to have showed up already. It's a shame, he is a lovely character.

I'm also assuming we will not see all of the Dragonseeds 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Ingelheim

[DMC]

Just now, Chataya de Fleury said:

Moon tea seems to be the most amazing thing ever…apparently, this non-invasive option is:

Readily available, inexpensive, works every time the first time, and no side effects. DAMN. 

If only it were that easy in the real world.

Republicans would just ban it/make it a Schedule I drug.

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Family tree posted by the official account on Twitter and no mention of Daeron, so I guess he’s not in the show.

Daeron might garner the Greens some moral sympathy for their conduct so he can't be allowed in. Viewers shouldn't be confused about which side is good.  

You see, the audience are like babies. They need to be nurtured and shown right from wrong so that one day they may grow up to be like Rhaenyra and Daemon.  

[Chataya de Fleury]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

Republicans would just ban it/make it a Schedule I drug.

They would; but first, they would make sure that their mistresses had it available.