[Spoilers] Episode 108 Discussion

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Daemon has given Rhaenyra two children, fairly recently and she is carrying a third.  Just because they're not sneaking off to have sex while visiting her horribly sickened father doesn't mean that they still don't have strong emotional and sexual feelings for each other.  I think Daemon loves Rhaenyra as much as he's capable of loving any woman.  He eventually becomes interested in Nettles (either paternally or romantically; but Rhaenyra takes it for the latter); but I imagine that if he hadn't been killed, they would have reconciled.  The only one of Daemon's marriages or romances in Fire & Blood that seemed to hold him was his relationship with Laena Velaryon.  House of the Dragon seems to be going out of its way to make Daemon & Rhaenyra its central romantic couple; so it will be interesting to see if Daemon pays attention to Nettles.

To be clear, I don't like the 'romantic couple' interpretation of Daemon-Nettles. I think this works better as them being father and daughter or otherwise close relations. (For the show I think it could be great to have Nettles as a natural daughter of Viserys whose mother Alicent destroyed in in ten year gap. His great affection for the girl could be very intriguing due to his close relationship to Viserys.)

But rewatching 7 & 8 I didn't really see much 'Rhaenyra passion' on Daemon's side. He doesn't talk about his feelings at all, never says he loves, never shows any initiative at all. To me it looks like he flies with Rhaenyra because he literally has nothing better to do, and has no idea what else he should do.

Daemon seems only emotionally involved or *there* as a character, when confronted by Viserys stuff. All the other time he is pretty much aloof, a cynical bystander who may even get off from watching how the Targaryens and Velaryons rip each other apart.

There are lines Daemon could said to explain what he sees in Rhaenyra, why he wants her. She says things ... but he doesn't. He never even says that he always wanted an incestuous family match - which I think is what he wanted, and what he could told her about. Idealizing his incestuous parents and grandparents, hoping to be paired with Aemma or a younger aunt, loathing the fact he never had a sister to marry, etc.

Daemon reveals he is in a midlife crisis and doesn't like how his life turned out ... but he doesn't say that he desires to marry Rhaenyra nor does he believe that this would make him happy.

It didn't make him unhappy, as we see in episode 8. But I'm not sure he is more happy in that marriage than he was in the Laena marriage.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

They would; but first, they would make sure that their mistresses had it available.

Well sure.  Weed, heroin, LSD, and shrooms are also Schedule I drugs but still aren't very hard to come by on the black market.

[Corvinus85]

8 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Family tree posted by the official account on Twitter and no mention of Daeron, so I guess he’s not in the show.

 

 

Neither, it seems, is Maelor. But the Blood & Cheese moment can still work with the two kids Helaena has.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

5 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Moon tea seems to be the most amazing thing ever…apparently, this non-invasive option is:

Readily available, inexpensive, works every time the first time, and no side effects. DAMN. 

If only it were that easy in the real world.

We'll get there someday. We haven't sent people to the moon for nothing. 

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

We'll get there someday. We haven't sent people to the moon for nothing. 

So THAT'S why we haven't been to the moon since 1972.  Damn Christian Right.

[Leticia Stark]

9 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Neither, it seems, is Maelor. But the Blood & Cheese moment can still work with the two kids Helaena has.

They’ll probaby skip the question of who should survive

[Lord Varys]

21 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Family tree posted by the official account on Twitter and no mention of Daeron, so I guess he’s not in the show.

Could be. But one imagines that only the characters who are mentioned in the show actually make it into the family tree they release. Helaena's children have just been mentioned, so they are there. Daeron hasn't been mentioned, so he isn't.

Maelor not being there yet doesn't mean they cut him. Helaena could be pregnant right now - or getting pregnant soon -, meaning the lad could be born in season 2.

[The Bard of Banefort]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, Rhaenyra only was named heir at the age of 14 in the show, no? And even thereafter she didn't really think she would be queen until her father had finally decided that she wouldn't be disinherited in favor of Aegon three years later.

Rhaenyra is raised as a pampered princess, not as the Heir Apparent. And to be clear - she still isn't that eager to be the queen in episode 8. She sees the crown as a burden and, quite correctly, faults her dad for deviding the Realm by naming her the heir.

While I guess we are to believe that it is this reluctance, this view of the crown as a burden, that rouses Viserys from his apathy one last time to try to set things to right ... Rhaenyra is right that her father should have never named her.

Jace is raised from the start as the heir to the Heir Apparent, so it is always clear that he will wear the crown one day.

Maybe, but Alicent never expected to be queen and she stepped up. Meanwhile, Aegon was told that he was going to be king since he was a little kid, and he has flouted all responsibility. I really think it’s a personality thing.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Why wasn’t Luke fostered with Corlys at Driftmark? He should have been, considering that was to be his seat.

[Ingelheim]

12 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Could be. But one imagines that only the characters who are mentioned in the show actually make it into the family tree they release. Helaena's children have just been mentioned, so they are there. Daeron hasn't been mentioned, so he isn't.

Maelor not being there yet doesn't mean they cut him. Helaena could be pregnant right now - or getting pregnant soon -, meaning the lad could be born in season 2.

I think we can safely say Daeron won't show up. He should have already, he's supposed to be 15 years old. 

If they had any intention for him to show up, the dinner last episode should have been it.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Why wasn’t Luke fostered with Corlys at Driftmark? He should have been, considering that was to be his seat.

As shown in Revenge of the Sith, Yoda felt that Luke would be safer on Tatooine with Owen and Beru.

Oh... never mind. 

[Corvinus85]

18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Maelor not being there yet doesn't mean they cut him. Helaena could be pregnant right now - or getting pregnant soon -, meaning the lad could be born in season 2.

The war effectively starts next episode. It won't be long after when certain envoys fly to Storm's End and soon after Blood & Cheese. No time for another pregnancy.

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

I think we can safely say Daeron won't show up. He should have already, he's supposed to be 15 years old. 

If they had any intention for him to show up, the dinner last episode should have been it.

They have a lot of kids to introduce.  It could be they wanted to wait for a second season (which when producing the show would have been a potentiality) to introduce Daeron just for simple parsimony.

[Corvinus85]

6 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

I think we can safely say Daeron won't show up. He should have already, he's supposed to be 15 years old. 

If they had any intention for him to show up, the dinner last episode should have been it.

Joffrey wasn't at the feast either, not little Aegon and Viserys. (it was bed time for the latter I'm sure)

And if they try to follow the book, Daeron would be in Oldtown.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Confirmation that Helaena and Aegon only have two kids. The evidence that Daeron has been cut is also growing.

https://www.hbo.com/house-of-the-dragon/character-guide

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

11 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Joffrey wasn't at the feast either, not little Aegon and Viserys. (it was bed time for the latter I'm sure)

And if they try to follow the book, Daeron would be in Oldtown.

But he should at least have been mentioned by now, so that people know he exists and won't be confused if he shows up.

[Corvinus85]

9 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But he should at least have been mentioned by now, so that people know he exists and won't be confused if he shows up.

[Leticia Stark]

Next episode is the last chance of him appearing. If he’s not there for his brother’s coronation, so he’ll never be.

[Lord Varys]

2 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

The war effectively starts next episode. It won't be long after when certain envoys fly to Storm's End and soon after Blood & Cheese. No time for another pregnancy.

Helaena could give birth to Maelor shortly before the fall of KL. Just because she has a breakdown doesn't mean she cannot give birth. You could easily see Aegon getting drunk during that party he throws for Aemond after the murder of Luke, and subsequently impregnating Helaena.

I think they could easily cut Maelor, to be sure, but it isn't something they have to do. He isn't really a character, more a plot point or plot device. All they basically need is a baby or toddler for a couple of scenes.

You should also keep in mind that the age of Aegon the Younger and Viserys in this episode means - necessitates, even - that the Dance has to last longer in the show than it does in the books. It must last more than 2+ years, possibly as many as five. Joffrey is also too young to play the role he does later in the war.

15 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Maybe, but Alicent never expected to be queen and she stepped up. Meanwhile, Aegon was told that he was going to be king since he was a little kid, and he has flouted all responsibility. I really think it’s a personality thing.

Alicent steps up and grows into her role only during the ten year gap. Before that, she is neither comfortable in the role nor particularly effective. Which is kind of weird in itself since Alicent should have been groomed for the role a queen consort ... which isn't that different from the role of lady wife.

Aegon was told that he would be king one day only by his mother. But the important, crucial voice there is the voice of his father. I mean, we can imagine that young Aegon summoned his courage one day and approached his father in a quiet moment, telling him that his mother kept telling him he would be king one day. He would ask whether this was true, whether his father really believe he should and would be king one day. You can imagine what Viserys would have answered. In fact, we should have gotten such a scene between, say, a 5-7-year-old Aegon and Viserys.

20 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Why wasn’t Luke fostered with Corlys at Driftmark? He should have been, considering that was to be his seat.

That is a good question. I guesstimate a possible answer would be that Corlys spent the last six years fighting on the Stepstones, and didn't want to take Luke into a war zone. Taking in Baela was Rhaenys' decision.

26 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

I think we can safely say Daeron won't show up. He should have already, he's supposed to be 15 years old. 

If they had any intention for him to show up, the dinner last episode should have been it.

The leaked reports said that

Spoiler

Daeron will be mentioned by Otto and Aemond, respectively, as being in Oldtown.

If that doesn't happen in the next episode chances are good that this is false information and he has been cut. But there was no need for them to mention him so far. They could have, of course, but there was no quiet scene between characters who would care about Daeron or who discussed things that would warrant him being mentioned.

Next episode the Greens will marshal their strength, they will write to the Hightowers in Oldtown, they will count their dragons, Daeron would be informed about the death of his father, etc. That's the moment to namedrop him, if he is still there, and also to reveal whether Otto's brother is still the Lord of Oldtown, or whether Otto's nephew Ormund is already in charge (as he should be per the book).

In any case, the way they shot things, Daeron doesn't have to be there. In the book they sent him to Oldtown as a squire only in the 120s, but in the show he could easily be a ward of the Hightowers from a younger age. He would be born during the ten year gap and sent to Oldtown years before episode 6 begins.

4 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Next episode is the last chance of him appearing. If he’s not there for his brother’s coronation, so he’ll never be.

In the book, Daeron isn't in KL during Aegon's coronation. He is sent to Oldtown years before his father's death and never returns to court, actually, eventually dying at Tumbleton.

[nara]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Moon tea seems to be the most amazing thing ever…apparently, this non-invasive option is:

Readily available, inexpensive, works every time the first time, and no side effects. DAMN. 

If only it were that easy in the real world.

Meanwhile, they haven’t figured out how to help women give birth safely. In this universe a lot of mother die in childbirth (Aema, Lyanna Stark, Dany’s mom, Joanna Lannister, etc.)

1 hour ago, Arataniello said:

Interesting factoid - Aegon II's naked buttocks have now been played by two different actors.  He is only character to have this unique "achievement".

 

They did a better job matching the actors’ buttocks than their faces or builds!