butterweedstrover Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, DMC said: You keep on trying to tie that scene to Alicent putting Aegon on the throne. 1 hour ago, DMC said: Obviously, her objective to put Alicent on the throne is NOT sympathetic. But, again, this is because of myriad other reasons. I didn't find anything in the books to make her decision to do so sympathetic in the books either, which is why I don't really understand the complaint. If you did, fair enough, but my interpretation of Aegon was he was unfit for kingship in the books as well. A character is based on their actions1. Their actions are based on motivation2. The book discloses the first but does not offer a definitive answer as to the second. Alicent's main purpose in both the show and the book is to undermine Rhaenyra so that Aegon might be named heir.1 In the show: a.) Alicent is a survivor of rape b.) Alicent does not wish to see other women experience rape c.) Therefore (we assume) Alicent is motivated in seeing the rapist reprimand2 This is not her only motivating factor, but it is the one we are introduced to at the beginning of the episode. Alicent's objective (read: action) is not inherently unsympathetic. Our sympathy for her objective is based on our sympathy for the motivations underpinning that action. The rub here is that motivation and action must be linked. Action cannot exist without motivation, and motivation cannot exist without action. We are provided with a sympathetic outlook in her moral clarity but this does not motivate action. She does not respond to this knowledge of wrong doing, nor does it affect her course. Her sole objective in the show (which is to see Aegon on the throne)1 comes to a head with this potential motivating factor as Aegon is determined to be rapist. Now her objective is in direct odds with the presumable motive that is meant to garner sympathy. And yet her sole objective in the show remains unchanged. Just as her actions are tied to her motives, her motives are reliant on her action. The reason this does not achieve sympathy or nuance for her character is because there is a disconnect between the motive and the action. 1 hour ago, DMC said: Moreover, as I mentioned, her misinterpretation of Viserys' dying wish is a change the show provided to make such an objective more sympathetic. Well I agree, but as I said before this is terrible writing as there have been 8 episodes of setup to try and develop potential reason for her actions only for the show itself to knock each one down. But seeing as they have to reach the same point as the book they offer a totally extraneous motive that had nothing to do with her character arc in the last minute. And that motivation is a lie meaning viewers can at best feel bad for her while having no scruples in wanting to see her objective fail. It is an awful premise to base the entire conflict upon but is a result of the show destroying itself in the last three episodes out of a desire to depict the Blacks as heroes. 1 hour ago, DMC said: Indeed, between that and the (very temporary) reconciliation with Rhaenyra during the most awkward family dinner ever - including her trying to quell Aemond's provocative toast - she is portrayed as sympathetic for much of episode 8. Besides the rape (which I again claim does achieve what you say it does due to a disconnect between her reaction and her response) all these examples are based on Alicent showing deference to the Blacks. If the Greens only sympathetic factor is their reluctance to oppose the Blacks, it further proves how (based on the show's framing) they have no moral stance since their existence in the narrative is based on their opposition to the Blacks. 1 hour ago, DMC said: Is the rape further evidence that Aegon is wanton, unfit, and generally a bad person? Obviously! Of course no one is arguing that. Great, so it offers further reason for us not to sympathize with Alicent's action, or her incoherent motivations. Edited October 13, 2022 by butterweedstrover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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