[Spoilers] Episode 109 Discussion

[Arataniello]

I guess we now know why Lord Commander Graham McTavish didn’t die earlier.  He’s taken the place of Ser Steffon, who was the KG who first defected to Rhaenyra.

[SeanF]

Just now, sifth said:

So Rhaenys could have ended the whole war, wtf

She killed dozens or possibly hundreds of people in her escape, but she showed mercy, to the people plotting treason on her and her family?

They are real people like her, not the plebs.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

So Rhaenys killed god knows how many small folk but couldn’t burn any of the greens and prevent a civil war? Geesh forget if the show is pro-black or pro-green because if anything this show is pro-Bobby B as it has throughly demonstrates that the Targshits are the gods greatest mistake lol

Edited October 17, 2022 by Stannis is the man....nis

[Lord of Brewtown]

I thought the episode was great right up until the end.   There was a sense of tension throughout the episode, and it was great the way they brought the Cargyll twins into the story.  The ending is just so frustrating.   If they wanted to make Rhaenys cool/badass, a fighting escape would have had that effect without throwing all logic out the window.   

[Winterfell is Burning]

13 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

So it seems the majority of the leaks from 4chan were true. The whole season plot leaked. It seems modern studios are having a hard time keeping all under sheets.

Pandemic forced more people to work remotely and have the scripts at home with them

[C.T. Phipps]

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

They are real people like her, not the plebs.

Alternatively: She couldn't kill members of her family versus complete strangers.

[zajaz]

6 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

So Rhaenys killed god knows how many small folk but couldn’t burn any of the greens and prevent a civil war? Geesh forget if the show is pro-black or pro-green because if anything this show is pro-Bobby B because it throughly demonstrates that the Targshits are the gods greatest mistake lol

Robert the Based: A thousand deaths will still be less than they deserve.

Edited October 17, 2022 by zajaz

[sifth]

So which member of the kings guard freed Rhaenys? I hard a hard time telling, with the helmet on. Was it Harrold Westerling or one of the twins?

[Arataniello]

And Melys clearly was the beast beneath the floor, and it’s not a  reference to Blood and Cheese.

[Arataniello]

Just now, sifth said:

So which member of the kings guard freed Rhaenys? I hard a hard time telling, with the helmet on. Was it Harrold Westerling or one of the twins?

It was one of the twins.

[Lord of Brewtown]

16 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Rhaenys could have prevented a civil war with one word… wow.  I understand not wanting to murder… but damn.

Agree.  If they really wanted that to be her motivation, they needed to play up the taboo of kinslaying/murder via dialogue earlier in the episode and really emphasize it.   

 

 

[sifth]

1 minute ago, Arataniello said:

It was one of the twins.

I thought as much, thanks for the confirmation.

[The Bard of Banefort]

After every episode, I come away thinking, "man, that was a pretty weird episode." Every time.

There were so many goofy moments this episode, namely the fight outside of the sept. It's so dumb that they completely adopted Mushroom's account for Aegon in its entirety, right down to the child fighting pits. I'm surprised they didn't include the part about a twelve-year-old girl going down on him while he watched.

Best performances: Alicent and Otto were magnificent, although I have to give credit to Aegon. He's done very well with the little he's been given. It was so surreal seeing a Targaryen king decked out in black, wearing the Conqueror's crown. I imagine we'll see something similar to this scene happen again with Aegon III in a few seasons. And did anyone catch Alicent's Cersei smirk when Aegon asked if she loved him?

Worst performance: Mysaria. Holy shit, how did they flub the casting this bad? I've only seen the actress in rom-coms, where she was perfectly fine, but her performance on HOTD has been painfully bad. If the problem is the accent, then the showrunners should have taken note and changed that. The fact that it's been twenty years provides a built-in excuse for why she would lose it too.

The scene between Alicent and Rhaenys was great, although I found it a bit anachronistic. We know what Westeros looks like in 150 years; there is no women's rights movement on the horizon. 

This might sound harsh, but it's extremely obvious that this show is made by guys who desperately want to be seen as "good allies." The way they have turned all the female characters into saints--Rhaenyra, Alicent, Rhaenys, Mysaria, Helaena--even when that directly contradicts the source material is indication enough of this. They're clearly terrified of accusations of sexism, the same way many people in the entertainment industry are now. It also makes me think that, looking back, perhaps young Rhaenyra wasn't supposed to be seen as "grey" but as a "sassy badass" like Arya. And maybe it says something about the audience that we didn't find that as cute and charming ten years later.

Edited October 17, 2022 by The Bard of Banefort
Changed a few words to make my post a bit less polarizing

[Arataniello]

3 minutes ago, sifth said:

I thought as much, thanks for the confirmation.

The accent was a dead giveaway.  Ser Harold = Scottish accent; the Cargills = Yorkshire.

Taking Rhaenys into the city while wearing his white cloak was a blindingly dumb move.

[Lord of Brewtown]

18 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Yes, Rhaenys having all the Greens at her mercy and knowing their treachery, it doesn’t make much sense that she leaves them alive (especially since she had no qualms killing all those plebs). Are they going to show her regretting that decision. Condal (in Inside the Ep) calls it a complex choice, one that viewers may not agree with. He got that right. Viewers won’t agree with it coz it doesn’t make much sense. He also says Rhaenys’ sympathy for the mother in Alicent, stays her hand or her rather her dragon. But that doesn’t make sense either. She’s wise enough to know that her decision not to toast them will lead to civil war and many mothers losing their kids.

And why is she in all armor. Is that how she left her room?

If Condal said that, he was really overthinking this.    

 

And yeah - the armor/wardrobe change struck me as odd.  I'm going to stop and throw on armor (or a dragon-riding suit?) while I'm in a hurry to get to my dragon/get free?   

Just so obviously a 'we need her to look/be badass' play.    I'll admit, she did look cool; but, this is just over-the-top.  

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Best performances: Alicent and Otto were magnificent, although I have to give credit to Aegon. He's done very well with the little he's been given. It was so surreal seeing a Targaryen king decked out in black, wearing the Conqueror's crown. I imagine we'll see something similar to this scene happen again with Aegon III in a few seasons. And did anyone catch Alicent's Cersei smirk when Aegon asked if she loved him?

Otto (the “Masturbating Welshman” from Notting Hill) is a damn good actor.  Subtle yet forceful.  There is power behind his smile.  

I do wonder what was his plan if Alicent followed through on her pledge to Rhaenyra?

[zajaz]

9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

After every episode, I come away thinking, "man, that was a pretty weird episode." Every time.

There were so many goofy moments this episode, namely the fight outside of the sept. It's so dumb that they completely adopted Mushroom's account for Aegon in its entirety, right down to the child fighting pits. I'm surprised they didn't include the part about a twelve-year-old girl going down on him while he watched.

Best performances: Alicent and Otto were magnificent, although I have to give credit to Aegon. He's done very well with the little he's been given. It was so surreal seeing a Targaryen king decked out in black, wearing the Conqueror's crown. I imagine we'll see something similar to this scene happen again with Aegon III in a few seasons. And did anyone catch Alicent's Cersei smirk when Aegon asked if she loved him?

Worst performance: Mysaria. Holy shit, how did they flub the casting this bad? I've only seen the actress in rom-coms, where she was perfectly fine, but her performance on HOTD has been painfully bad. If the problem is the accent, then the showrunners should have taken note and changed that. The fact that it's been twenty years provides a built-in excuse for why she would lose it too.

The scene between Alicent and Rhaenys was great, although I found it a bit anachronistic. We know what Westeros looks like in 150 years; there is no women's rights movement on the horizon. 

This might sound harsh, but it's extremely obvious that this show is made by liberal white guys who desperately want to be seen as "good allies." The way they have turned all the female characters into saints--Rhaenyra, Alicent, Rhaenys, Mysaria, Helaena--even when that directly contradicts the source material is indication enough of this. They're clearly terrified of accusations of sexism, the same way many people in the entertainment industry are now. It also makes me think that, looking back, perhaps young Rhaenyra wasn't supposed to be seen as "grey" but as a "sassy badass" like Arya. And maybe it says something about the audience that we didn't find that as cute and charming ten years later.

I'm going to say (or, write) something that is going to bother a lot of people, I'm sure, but reading your post I have to say it: hearing the words "the evils of the Patriarchy" or "women for Trump" coming from a white dude's mouth is something that I find as laughable as it is pandering. It's like some of the writers are trying way too hard to be seen as "good white guys, totally not bigots".

[C.T. Phipps]

13 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This might sound harsh, but it's extremely obvious that this show is made by liberal white guys who desperately want to be seen as "good allies." The way they have turned all the female characters into saints--Rhaenyra, Alicent, Rhaenys, Mysaria, Helaena--even when that directly contradicts the source material is indication enough of this. They're clearly terrified of accusations of sexism, the same way many people in the entertainment industry are now. It also makes me think that, looking back, perhaps young Rhaenyra wasn't supposed to be seen as "grey" but as a "sassy badass" like Arya. And maybe it says something about the audience that we didn't find that as cute and charming ten years later.

This is ridiculous.

Seriously. What sort of nonsense suggests that the writers are inventing a feminist agenda. ITS ALWAYS BEEN FEMINIST. The story is called the "Princess and the Queen." Also, why do people keep trying to defend the Greens? They've ALWAYS been the villains of this. Martin is a feminist and like half of A Song of Ice and Fire is about the female perspective in Medieval life and how it fucking sucks.

I think people need to check themselves if they don't think Martin has been promoting a pro-woman POV for the books.

And he did it decades before a misogynist dumbass became the US President.

Note: My family knew personally Trump when I was a kid and considered him a complete asshole.

Edited October 17, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[Stannis is the man....nis]

Also as someone else pointed out (and I even brought up last episode) it is really hypocritical to of ignored mushrooms version of what happened only to them incorporate it but only for Aegon 

[sifth]

13 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This might sound harsh, but it's extremely obvious that this show is made by liberal white guys who desperately want to be seen as "good allies." The way they have turned all the female characters into saints--Rhaenyra, Alicent, Rhaenys, Mysaria, Helaena--even when that directly contradicts the source material is indication enough of this. They're clearly terrified of accusations of sexism, the same way many people in the entertainment industry are now. It also makes me think that, looking back, perhaps young Rhaenyra wasn't supposed to be seen as "grey" but as a "sassy badass" like Arya. And maybe it says something about the audience that we didn't find that as cute and charming ten years later.

To be fair, the original show did this with many of it's female characters as well. Like how it white washed many of Cersei's actions, such as the killing of Robert's bastards, being Joffrey's action and not hers on the show. Another example is Cat actually feeling guilty of her treatment of Jon during her final season on the show, where in the books she never even gives Jon a second thought, after the "it should have been you" chapter, except for when Robb brings up his will, in which she strongly tries to convince Robb that Jon is not good and might turn on him like Theon did. There are probably other examples as well, it has been a while since I saw the show, though I remember Cersei being a lot less evil in the early seasons of the show, compared to the books.

Edited October 17, 2022 by sifth