Jump to content

[Spoilers] Episode 109 Discussion


Ran
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

The first episode of HotD takes place in 112.

No, it starts in ~109. 172 years before the birth of Dany and the death of Aerys (as it says after the opening prologue from the Great Council) is, in the show universe, that year because in GoT Robert was crowned in 280 and Dany was born in 281.

I assume they tweaked Beesbury's age just because someone wanted to do the x-and-y construction, since eighty is just... eighty. 

Edited by Ran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Rockroi said:

I find it weird that you think that was an "accident."  There is a difference between wanton/reckless behavior and an accident.  She knew or should have known that if she breaks through a the floor that thousands of people are standing on with a  dragon... people are going to die.  And she killed them.  Its either murder or manslaughter.  Either way, she's terrible for doing that and any attempt to mitigate it is "whataboutism." 

And btw - many of us thought Larys was a shit for killing his own brother and father and said so.  

Good point.

It wasn't accident. But I'd technically put it under self-defense. Manslaughter if you will. Guilty as she may be according to the letter of the law, I do not fault her for that.

There was no other way to get Meleys out of the Dragonpit and Meleys is her safest and best bet in escaping out of the city. Better than a Kingsguard.

Larys is a shit for attempting to kill Mysaria and all her spies in their own headquarters. Mysaria was doing a good thing.

2 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

See, if that was the end of it - if she was really that way - then I would be okay with it.  I would get that she would need to escape.  

But she then faces down the enemy and ... what?  She has a chance to end the whole war, save all her grandchildren and ensure her and her family's safety. She does not "kill or be killed" 

Well, to be honest, at this point, all bets are not off. Peace can still be made. It can also be interpreted as a warning and a show of power.

Should she have killed them? Absolutely. I think it was a mistake...a slightly out-of-character mistake seeing that the book version of Rhaenys is known to have a horrible temper. Her decision to show mercy is going to cause friction within Team Black and she's probably going to end up regretting it.

But ultimately, Rhaenys was acting out of self-defense and self-preservation. Breaking through the boards and thereby killing a couple hundred people is Rhaenys acting out of self-defense. Burning the Dowager Queen, the Hand, the King, the Queen, the High Septon, a prince, the Small Council and a couple knights of the Kingsguard with dragonfire is not acting out of self-defense...

12 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

Is she "kill or be killed" or is she wise and merciful (who had just killed like 150 innocent people)?  You can have one or the other, but not both.

It's a "kill or be killed" and "escape now or be forever trapped" situation when she sneaks below the boards and sets Meleys free. That changes when she and Meleys stare down the Greens on stage...it's not a "kill or be killed" situation anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Ran said:

No, it starts in ~109. 172 years before the birth of Dany and the death of Aerys (as it says after the opening prologue from the Great Council) is, in the show universe, that year because in GoT Robert was crowned in 280 and Dany was born in 281.

The show can't start at 109 because it is said that the Great Council of Harrenhal takes place in 101, and that the first episode takes place in the ninth year of Viserys' reign. So it'd start 110 at the very earliest, if Jaehaerys I had died right after the Great Council.

But I honestly think that they went with the book date for Viserys' death of 103, and therefore, the series starts at 112 (103+9). The 172 years before the death of the birth of Dany also would match with the books (284-172=112).

I've also seen several media outlets quoting the 112 AC date, which I assume, can only come from production sources.

Edited by The hairy bear
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

he show can't start at 109 because it is said that the Great Council of Harrenhal takes place in 101, and that the first episode takes place in the ninth year of Viserys' reign. So it'd start 110 at the very earliest, if Jaehaerys I had died right after the Great Council.

If they have Jaehaerys die in 101, the first year of Viserys's reign is 101, and 109 is then the 9th year of his reign.

The 112 thing sounds like people forgetting the TV show moved things around. Screenrant and the Insider both use our wiki, IIRC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, miyuki said:

Rhaenys goes through the trouble of busting through the Dragonpit's floor, kills dozens if not hundreds of smallfolk, does so just as a show of force and doesn't just roast the whole family right then and there. 

Because the whole reason for that scene was spectacles. She shouldn't have been there, to begin with. Period.

I fear they haven't learned much from GOT. It's giving me Dany's vibe all over again.

Edited by Adaneth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

 

Good things:

  • I liked how Aegon spends the whole episode claiming that he doesn't want to be king, only to fully embrace it the moment that people start shouting his name. It was not easy to define 

It seems to me that the guy never felt love, respect or kindness. Seeing thousands of people cheering him and shouting out his name as the new King, must be an overwhelming and thrilling thing to experience. At least, that's how I interpreted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, DMC said:

:rolleyes:  She's trying to escape.  It's certainly another good depiction of the dragons stomping on the smallfolk, but if every character in asoiaf that doesn't give two figs about the smallfolk is "an outright villain," then almost all of them are.

For a royal or noble to care about the smallfolk of Westeros (or Eastern slaves) is a quirk or eccentricity in this world. Much stranger than being gay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, teej6 said:

So I watched the scene again when Ser Erryk picks her up… no armor then. maybe she carries an armor suit on Meleys, who knows. Maybe, I’ll enjoy these shows better if I stop caring about continuity and logical progression in scenes. 

It’s like having a helmet stored in your motorcycle. Why wouldn’t they bring clothing to change into after getting out of their flight suit? They made a huge deal in Ep1 about how smelly one gets riding dragons. I grew up riding horses. I get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ShadowKitteh said:

It’s like having a helmet stored in your motorcycle. Why wouldn’t they bring clothing to change into after getting out of their flight suit? They made a huge deal in Ep1 about how smelly one gets riding dragons. I grew up riding horses. I get it.

Yeah, I have no problem with the idea that one's dragon riding clothing/armor may be kept down in the Dragonpit. Would have been nice to explore the area underground a bit more, see if there are chambers attached to the lairs of the dragons, places where the dragon's tack is kept and maintained, clothing, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Uh, no. That they are whitewashing all of the female characters is my point. Alicent was a cool schemer in the books who left her husband's body to rot while she staged a coup. Now she is a tragic victim determined to defend her son, stop the cruelties of men, and save the realm after she misinterpreted her husband's dying words. Her and Otto were clearly in cahoots in the books; here she didn't even know he was planning anything until it was unraveling before her.

Rhaenyra in the books likely never even tried to conceive an heir with Laenor and ordered Vaemond's execution. Now she was forced to have an affair because Laenor was infertile, and Daemon killed Vaemond entirely on his own.

Mysaria is a cruel sociopath in the books. Now she's a crusader determined to end childhood suffering.

It's not about politics or feminism. I have defended female characters and perspectives on this website plenty of times--we've interacted enough that you certainly must have noticed this. The writers are clearly afraid of backlash, and the story is suffering because of it.

Agreed.

They even inserted TPTWP prophecy into Rhaenyra, as if she needed a better reason for wanting the throne? At least partially. I'm sure they inserted that as a Lore tidbit in regards to Aegon, and a connection with GOT, which I personally find it cringe. Leave TPTWP for the books. The less reminder of GOT series, the better for this show, IMO.

Edited by Adaneth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DMC said:

It's laughable to think this would be considered one of the "blackest deeds" since Maegor in-universe.  The histories don't give two shits about the smallfolk either.  Indeed, it would only be considered a "black deed" if she DID roast the greens and septons.

I quite agree.

No one condemns Prince Daeron for what he did at Bitterbridge.

In ASOIAF the stink over the murder of Elia and her children is because she’s Elia of Dorne.  No one would care if she were some random peasant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ran said:

If they have Jaehaerys die in 101, the first year of Viserys's reign is 101, and 109 is then the 9th year of his reign.

The 112 thing sounds like people forgetting the TV show moved things around. Screenrant and the Insider both use our wiki, IIRC.

Not as much as forgetting, I guess, but assuming Condal & Co. dismissed D&D's changes to the source's timeline (just like they have reinstated Jaeahaerys II to existence).

But anyway, your point is reasonable. Do you think the wiki should be changed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Not as much as forgetting, I guess, but assuming Condal & Co. dismissed D&D's changes to the source's timeline (just like they have reinstated Jaeahaerys II to existence).

But anyway, your point is reasonable. Do you think the wiki should be changed?

We are the book canon wiki, so I don't think so? Or is there a HotD page stating it starts in 112 AC? I think that shouldn't be there because it's not explicitly said anywhere and we can see that there's reason to question that.

The other reason I find the date being even later for this episode is that they've already made Aegon the Younger and Viserys so very young as it is for 129, much less 132.

Edited by Ran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Larys a foot fetish.

The 14th post.

13 other people talking about nonsense.

Nobody talking about the Foot scene until the 14th post?! What’s wrong with you all! 

13 and more of “to dark” and “Why didn’t she dracarys” Easy answers and  simple complaints! But what about the footing! 
Strip poker? 
Bootless and skinned hosiery? 
All those beautiful little piggies!  
What about the stink of those pods? Hmmm yea…all wrapped up in stalkings like shackles, hiding in those boots… let me sniff the phumes of freedom….

Wait. What we talking about? I got distracted…uhm. :) 

I can’t wait to discuss this subject after I spend some time watching it again

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, SeanF said:

For a royal or noble to care about the smallfolk of Westeros (or Eastern slaves) is a quirk or eccentricity in this world. Much stranger than being gay.

They might not care for the smallfolk. But PR is a thing for nobles, especially royals. Some didn't care at all maybe, but it is not something that nobles disregarded because "who cares for smallfolk."

I get it. She needed to get out of KL with her Dragon. My issue with the scene is that she shouldn't have been put into that position at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like the right way of handling things would have been for her to wait until the coronation was done and they were ushering people out of the Dragonpit. Then busting out would have been a lot less messy.

But I think one aspect of things... are we sure the future Shepherd isn't in that crowd? Maybe with his wife and kids, or a brother, or what have you?  Did he lose his hand (and his family) in this disaster?  Is this basically going to be the key to the future Storming of the Dragonpit?

I wouldn't be surprised if they're thinking that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...