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[Spoilers] Episode 109 Discussion


Ran
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6 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

How so? I thought it was an incredibly stupid moment, reminiscent of D&D at their worst.

D&D at their worst had no consequences.

Actions such as that will have consequences in this story. It's literally hardcoded into the story.

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Which clearly seems to be more the throne than Helaena.

But Aemond's interest in Helaena likely might be used to have get really angry in the wake of Blood and Cheese.

Right now the guy is still very controlled and potentially pretty competent (although I'm sure his own assessment of his abilities and education are not necessarily accurate), they have some work to do to make him the mad sadistic nutcase he eventually becomes in the book.

I will find that shift very weird in the show unless they play their cards right (i.e. the guilt that Aemond feels makes him crazy and mean). But then, it just makes him look like a male Helaena.

After all, the Blood and Cheese event is the direct consequence of Aemond's unsanctioned, unnecessary, pettily cruel actions.

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15 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

D&D at their worst had no consequences.

Actions such as that will have consequences in this story. It's literally hardcoded into the story.

But Rhaenys escape is presented as a triumphant, badass moment, with the death of the smallfolk not addressed at all. Not as a tragic accident, not as a necessary sacrifice, nothing. The writer of the episode flat out said that civilians don't matter.

Edited by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy
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I think that was a facile and disappointing off-the-cuff answer, but still, it was off-the-cuff and doesn't necessarily reflect the show being done with it. 

I do get annoyed that these glib answers show up each time they do something head-scratch inducing -- "Mistakes were made" was Ryan Condal's response to being questiond about how Criston Cole got away with murder -- but at the same time... well, they have a lot of time to cover and these narrative shortcuts may at times be simply forced on them.

Edited by Ran
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2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But Rhaenys escape is presented as a triumphant, badass moment, with the death of the small folk not addressed at all. Not as a tragic accident, not as a necessary sacrifice, nothing. The writer of the episode flat out said that civilians don't matter.

Agreed.

That's what annoys me the most actually. Not the scene itself but how it was portrayed and explained. I look sometimes at reaction's videos on Youtube, like the one at the Burlingtons bar where everyone is cheering and clapping at random's people being killed, it makes me loose faith in humanity sometimes ^^

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@Khloey

Yeah, actually, I looked at theirs as soon as it came up. First thing I noticed, though? Bar was a lot more crowded than in previous episodes. Suggesting that locally, at least, the show is picking up steam...

But yeah, other than one or two people who seemed to be shocked and a bit surprised at the destructiveness, most of it was just that same "shock and awe" thing that seemed to keep GoT going in its last years. The lowest common denominator -- which appears to include hipsters hanging out being filmed in bars! -- are very easily entertained.

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1 minute ago, Ran said:

@Khloey

Yeah, actually, I looked at theirs as soon as it came up. First thing I noticed, though? Bar was a lot more crowded than in previous episodes. Suggesting that locally, at least, the show is picking up steam...

But yeah, other than one or two people who seemed to be shocked and a bit surprised at the destructiveness, most of it was just that same "shock and awe" thing that seemed to keep GoT going in its last years. The lowest common denominator -- which appears to include hipsters hanging out being filmed in bars! -- are very easily entertained.

Yeah, I wonder how fake those reactions can be. I don't think you behave in the same way, when you know you're being filmed. I completely agree with you about that "shock and awe" thing. It's like the more popular GOT became, the less intelligent it was. Still can't believe how much people are still angry about season 8 but have zero problem with the seventh which is equally bad. Maybe its popularity is what killed it.

I was also very shocked watching the reactions at the bars from episode 7 when people cheered on Rhaenyra saying to Alicent "Exhausting, wasn't it? Hiding beneath the cloak of your own righteousness."

I expected some sympathies toward Alicent, her son just lost an eye, you can understand her anger. Lots of parents would do worst for less. ^^

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1 minute ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

In theory, they still could address it in the next episode, but I don't think it's likely to happen.

Definitely unlikely since I'm pretty sure it's 100% a Dragonstone episode.

Next season, though, perhaps? Who knows.

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Also even as an off the cuff remark makes no sense because how can you say “civilians don’t water” in a story that dedicated a big time to Aemond committing war crimes on the civilian population of the RL and one of the most critical/consequential events is going to be a peasant riot/uprising? 

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16 minutes ago, Khloey said:

I was also very shocked watching the reactions at the bars from episode 7 when people cheered on Rhaenyra saying to Alicent "Exhausting, wasn't it? Hiding beneath the cloak of your own righteousness."

People nowadays react very viscerally to self-righteous, "I do all the right things" goody-two-shoes. Especially ones who keep pressing and picking at issues that have already been contested and resolved.

Alicent, at that point, was being very self-righteous. She is similar to Ned Stark but, unlike Ned Stark, her motives and reasonings are not pure. They are fearful, paranoid and selfish.

And mother or not, stealing a dagger from a person and charging at an 8-year-old child with said stolen dagger (in public, no less) is pretty wild.

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Just now, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Also even as an off the cuff remark makes no sense because how can you say “civilians don’t water” in a story that dedicated a big time to Aemond committing war crimes on the civilian population of the RL and one of the most critical/consequential events is going to be a peasant riot/uprising? 

Yeah that was a pretty stupid remark.

 

All I'm saying is that Rhaenys is not at all wrong for setting herself and her dragon free with a consequences-be-damned mindset, that she will come to regret this decision and the smallfolk will remember events like this and the attack on Mysaria.

 

Plus, let's think of what would've happened if Rhaenys never escaped.

For one, Rhaenyra would've never found out. She would've eventually returned to King's Landing only to walk right into a death trap and Dragonstone would've ended up facing surprise siege and blockade.

It wouldn't be right.

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1 minute ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Also even as an off the cuff remark makes no sense because how can you say “civilians don’t water” in a story that dedicated a big time to Aemond committing war crimes on the civilian population of the RL and one of the most critical/consequential events is going to be a peasant riot/uprising? 

I took the remark to mean civilians don't count to the nobles - just as they didn't in GoT.

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1 minute ago, Ingelheim said:

IMO they are going to make the Greens enormously less popular among them, they are going to be horrified.

You mean even less popular than they are now? I mean if one is supporting Greens so far into the show, I don't think a little bit of kinslaying will change one's mind :)

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2 minutes ago, apovsic said:

You mean even less popular than they are now? I mean if one is supporting Greens so far into the show, I don't think a little bit of kinslaying will change one's mind :)

I wouldn't be surprised if people are more upset about the dragon.

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5 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

How do you think the average non-reader viewer will react to the Aemond-Lucerys scene in the finale? 

IMO they are going to make the Greens enormously less popular among them, they are going to be horrified.

Theyr won't cheer on it, that's for sure. But then I can't wait to see the look on their face next season for Blood and cheese.

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