[Spoilers] Episode 109 Discussion

[DMC]

43 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

As cringey as her interviews were, I do feel bad for Sara Hess, seeing how badly she’s getting dogpiled online. Nothing seems to rile up GOT fans like being angry at someone who works on the show.

Blaming Sara Hess for the Rhaenys scene is just reason 4 trillion something for why the internet is so stupid.  The responsibility for such a decision - and really any major beat in any episode - ultimately resides with the showrunners.  That's why they are called showrunners.  Fucking morons.

[ShadowKitteh]

On 10/17/2022 at 2:48 AM, Cashless Society said:

what's to stop Aemond from killing his brother and nephew(s) land turning this into Hamlet?

Richard III.

[ShadowKitteh]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:54 AM, butterweedstrover said:

Who care about faith? The shining was not faithful and it was a 100 times better. Maybe Sandman feels off because it was faithful. 

It's supposedly this intense story with god like powers and yet it is incredibly boring, hampered by hours of exposition and these weird 'abstract' fight scenes meant to hide the lack of tension as regards the wider narrative. Just odd people doing odd stuff, no one is going to look back at this show and see a hit series worth investing money into. 

You should actually watch it instead of cut/pasting someone else’s review who also didn’t watch it and had no first-hand knowledge of the source material. 

[butterweedstrover]

10 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

You should actually watch it instead of cut/pasting someone else’s review who also didn’t watch it and had no first-hand knowledge of the source material. 

I did watch it.

[Bungholes First]

 

On 10/17/2022 at 3:32 AM, Khloey said:

I would say every characters on the shows both GOT and HOTD are somewhat whitewashed. It is more striking in HOTD regarding female characters I agree.

But even in GOT, most characters were whitewashed (Tyrion is the most striking example), even Ramsey or Tywin, they're awful, but it's nothing compared to their book counterparts.

The show versions of Arya, Sansa, Brienne, and Jon Snow became more murderous and cold blooded. They either showed no emotion in killing people (that they often never killed in the books) and/or took pleasure in the act of killing. 

[ShadowKitteh]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:33 AM, Ran said:

His temple struck the "ball of attendance" or whatever that's called that each of the councillors has in front of them. Basically cracked his skull on the weakest point. Would someone really die from that? I've no idea, but I guess it might happen. 

Yes, you can die from that. Model/Actor John-Erik Hexim died when he put a prop gun to his temple that had a blank (with wad for flash effect) in the chamber, and pulled the trigger in an attempt to be funny. He didn’t believe a wad of flash paper would do damage even at velocity. 

[Mithras]

This Episode so far was the most brazen, undeniable example of ruining the existing material and preferring stupid spectacles over logic/storytelling, something for which the book-purist fandom (which by the way mostly shills for Hot D because they are led to believe that this show is a GRRM-approved faithful adaptation) hated the last seasons of GoT and blamed it all on D&D. Well, they are not here and we are still getting the same stuff. Perhaps it is time to start figuring out the responsibility of Sapochnik or even HBO governors in the GoT's final seasons.

In Season 2 or 3 of Hot D, I can see the fandom saying that D&D did nothing wrong.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Mithras said:

This Episode so far was the most brazen, undeniable example of ruining the existing material and preferring stupid spectacles over logic/storytelling, something for which the book-purist fandom (which by the way mostly shills for Hot D because they are led to believe that this show is a GRRM-approved faithful adaptation) hated the last seasons of GoT and blamed it all on D&D. Well, they are not here and we are still getting the same stuff. Perhaps it is time to start figuring out the responsibility of Sapochnik or even HBO governors in the GoT's final seasons.

In Season 2 or 3 of Hot D, I can see the fandom saying that D&D did nothing wrong.

Something that I never understood is how people would say that S8 was all D&D’s fault and HBO was blameless. HBO signed off on every decision D&D made. The show had been going off the rails for years and they didn’t care so long as it continued to bring in revenue. 

[Khloey]

3 hours ago, Bungholes First said:

 

The show versions of Arya, Sansa, Brienne, and Jon Snow became more murderous and cold blooded. They either showed no emotion in killing people (that they often never killed in the books) and/or took pleasure in the act of killing. 

Arya maybe yes.. Although, apart from her bitchy and weird behaviour in season 7, she only slaughtered the Freys which everyone wanted to see murdered. It was clearly shown as a "badass girl moment". And not at all framed as morally ambiguous.

Brienne and Jon Snow have clearly remained "good guys" in the show. I don't see how they were more murderous or cold blooded.

I can only agree regarding Sansa. She became an arrogant cold bit** in the show. Another kind of Cersei. This character's arc was just ruined. But still, the show tried to sell it as a girl empowerment. Most people hate the character on the show and they're right (there is no logic that she doesn't tell Jon about LF and the Vale before the battle, I don't even know why they bothered to try to add suspens, everyone knew LF the kights of the Vale would arrive at the end..)

Anyway, what matters isn't so much what those characters did but how it was framed, and apart from Sansa, those characters always had the moral highground.

[Adaneth]

6 hours ago, EggBlue said:

he's got mostly bad things going about him and unfortunately lacks the depth they are clearly giving Aemond with so little screen time (I thought it would be the other way around!) . I think Daemon shines because of Matt Smith ... and that's about it . 

I like Daemon in the books. Maybe it has something to do with his relationship with Netty. But he's one of the very few characters I like, or find intriguing and interesting about the DoD story. 

I agree with you though. Aemond is looking more interesting then him in the show. At least at the moment, I'm starting to lean more towards him. 

Quote

absolutely . this actor is great . re age differences , as others mentioned , Ewan Mitchel is younger than Tom Glynn-carney . considering Aegon is a pampered soft prince and Aemond is the warrior prince , I'm fine with their depictions . where it doesn't make sense is with Jace and Aemond's age difference . as far as we know , Jace and Aemond are pretty close in age , unless Alicent somehow managed to have Aemond when Rhaenyra was on her tour and they kinda forgot to tell/show the audience! 

First time I see him. So, so good. I actually liked him as Aemond when I saw some pics of him with the eye patch on internet. I thought they had nailed it. His acting is just confirming that.

[Adaneth]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Something that I never understood is how people would say that S8 was all D&D’s fault and HBO was blameless. HBO signed off on every decision D&D made. The show had been going off the rails for years and they didn’t care so long as it continued to bring in revenue. 

HBO wanted more seasons. That's the only pass I'm willing to give them. Although, even that, they probably wanted it for business reasons. Revenues, as you mentioned. 

I don't know what kind of a deal, contract, D&D had with HBO. But if HBO had the option to end their collaboration with D&D, when they didn't want to continue any longer. If they had the option to bring in new creators&writers, and they didn't take that, then, the biggest portion of the blame should go to HBO.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Adaneth

[Adaneth]

3 hours ago, Mithras said:

This Episode so far was the most brazen, undeniable example of ruining the existing material and preferring stupid spectacles over logic/storytelling, something for which the book-purist fandom (which by the way mostly shills for Hot D because they are led to believe that this show is a GRRM-approved faithful adaptation) hated the last seasons of GoT and blamed it all on D&D. Well, they are not here and we are still getting the same stuff. Perhaps it is time to start figuring out the responsibility of Sapochnik or even HBO governors in the GoT's final seasons.

In Season 2 or 3 of Hot D, I can see the fandom saying that D&D did nothing wrong.

Well, the entire Dany's story in Season 2 was wrong and boring ah. lol

I didn't care much for Jon's story's either. But, otherwise, I agree with you. Although, I don't think Sapochnik had any decision making powers with regards to GOT. 

[SeanF]

29 minutes ago, Khloey said:

Arya maybe yes.. Although, apart from her bitchy and weird behaviour in season 7, she only slaughtered the Freys which everyone wanted to see murdered. It was clearly shown as a "badass girl moment". And not at all framed as morally ambiguous.

Brienne and Jon Snow have clearly remained "good guys" in the show. I don't see how they were more murderous or cold blooded.

I can only agree regarding Sansa. She became an arrogant cold bit** in the show. Another kind of Cersei. This character's arc was just ruined. But still, the show tried to sell it as a girl empowerment. Most people hate the character on the show and they're right (there is no logic that she doesn't tell Jon about LF and the Vale before the battle, I don't even know why they bothered to try to add suspens, everyone knew LF the kights of the Vale would arrive at the end..)

Anyway, what matters isn't so much what those characters did but how it was framed, and apart from Sansa, those characters always had the moral highground.

Arya was portrayed as someone who loved to play with her food so to speak (eg cutting Meryn Trant to pieces, and feeding Walder Frey his children).   But her victims were all Evil Men, so we were meant to enjoy seeing them get their just desserts.  Ditto, Sansa feeding Ramsay to his dogs.

That did undercut their message at the end that killing Evil Men is a terrible thing.

They tried to whitewash Tyrion, only to make him into a sanctimonious, hypocritical piece of shit.  

[SeanF]

8 minutes ago, Adaneth said:

Well, the entire Dany's story in Season 2 was wrong and boring ah. lol

I didn't care much for Jon's story's either. But, otherwise, I agree with you. Although, I don't think Sapochnik had any decision making powers with regards to GOT. 

Dany in Qarth showed what they’d do with original material.  The plot line was awful.

[Adaneth]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

They tried to whitewash Tyrion, only to make him into a sanctimonious, hypocritical piece of shit.  

And a complete moron. lol

[SeanF]

3 minutes ago, Adaneth said:

And a complete moron. lol

 

3 minutes ago, Adaneth said:

And a complete moron. lol

That goes without saying.

[The Bard of Banefort]

One thing I wish the books clarified was whether Aemon fully intended for Rhaenys to follow him onto the throne. The fact that the succession crisis didn’t come up until after his death leads me to believe that yes, he did. But it’s weird that Rhaenys and Alysanne didn’t use this to their advantage. The idea that Jaehaerys would be spitting on his son’s grave would have surely have made for a powerful objection to his decision to pass over Rhaenys.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

5 hours ago, Mithras said:

This Episode so far was the most brazen, undeniable example of ruining the existing material and preferring stupid spectacles over logic/storytelling, something for which the book-purist fandom (which by the way mostly shills for Hot D because they are led to believe that this show is a GRRM-approved faithful adaptation) hated the last seasons of GoT and blamed it all on D&D. Well, they are not here and we are still getting the same stuff. Perhaps it is time to start figuring out the responsibility of Sapochnik or even HBO governors in the GoT's final seasons.

In Season 2 or 3 of Hot D, I can see the fandom saying that D&D did nothing wrong.

I mean, I have some issues with HotD, but it is a faithful adaptation for the most part.

[butterweedstrover]

Someone ate my burrito so I'm angry this morning. 

Anyways, the only characters whitewashed so far in HotD are Daemon and Rhaenyra. 

Cole has gone from a somewhat ambiguous bachelor to a hyperventilating mopey piece of shit who killed two nobles at random in front of an audience. 

Alicent has gone from a fierce mother to a schizophrenic outpatient who might have escaped from a mental asylum, killing her duplicate as means to play the role of queen and 'friend'. 

Otto was a competent ruler with ambition. Now he is an incompetent administrator with a tyrannical streak of hanging nobles with impunity. 

Larys was a black box whose motives and loyalties seemed illusive. Now he is a psychopath motivated by his foot-fetish.  

Aegon was drunkard reluctant for the throne. Now he is a drunkard reluctant for the throne and a confirmed rapist. 

Aemond was a lunatic loyal to his brother's cause. Now Aemond is a lunatic disloyal to his brother's cause. 

Helaena was a sweet innocent girl, now she is a cryptic dreamer who randomly gives out sage advice like an NPC being paid to doll out information about the next boss fight. 

Daeron was a compassionate boy eager to do what was right. Now Daeron is in the void hurling through the dark. 

Rhaenys was a stoic and brave figure who has now become a compassionate, gentle, forgiving, badass queen who we all must bow down to. 

Oh yeah, and Rhaenyra and Daemon are saints beyond reproach. They are so good, moral, and kind that no one really can question their character, in fact desperately clinging onto the fact that he killed his wife (so see, he IS nuanced!) doesn't change the fact that he is the ultimate superhero who will always have your back because he is the ultimate badass who helped Viserys onto his throne as a fuck you to Otto and also fucked the king's daughter as a fuck you to those backwards hypocrites who think you can judge a woman's sex life.   

Edited October 20, 2022 by butterweedstrover

[Mithras]

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I mean, I have some issues with HotD, but it is a faithful adaptation for the most part.

And so is GoT but the double standard in the fandom is hilarious.