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[Spoilers] Episode 110 Discussion


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11 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

There's been a massive meltdown of DxR fangirls on Instagram and Twitter and Tik Tok since Friday. Like for real. They've been insulting Ryan and Sara Hess the whole weekend.

Seeing DxR stans being salty brings me life, not going to lie. Imagine if the show choose to make Nettles Daemon's "true love". That will be a glorious day, I swear.

Edited by zajaz
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I feel like they should have introduced the idea that they don't have full control over the dragons before this. There was Visery's speech in the first episode but I didn't take that literally.

I kind of like that it wasn't Aemond's intention to murder his nephew and that it just got out of hand. I can buy that dragons aren't used to fighting other dragons and share their riders animosities but not the self control to not straight up try to murder each other.

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I’m not sure how I feel about the way they changed Luke’s death. On the one hand, it being an accident fits more with this version of Aemond, who is much more dutiful and deferential to Alicent, and obviously realizes just how stupid it is to kill an envoy. At the same time, him chasing Luke around on his dragon and not expecting it to end in bloodshed is also really stupid, and he acts like such an over-the-top villain that having the show then go “see, it was really all an accident!” feels both goofy and manipulative.

In fact, I'd say that now having two major plot points rely on some kind of accident or misunderstanding (Luke's death and Viserys' last words) was a bad move. It's the sort of thing that happens in sitcoms, not political dramas.

HOTD did a really good job of casting its young actors. This was Luke’s episode to shine. Jace is also very good—he has an intensity to him that makes him stand out—but I wish we got more of him.

Have teen-Baela and Rhaena said more than three words all season?

Rhaenys’ uncertainty about whether she would align with Rhaenyra or not was silly. Her two granddaughters are betrothed to Rhaenyra’s sons and the boys are her acknowledged grandsons. It would be complete nonsense for her not to support Rhaenyra. The framing of her support was also weird. She admired Rhaenyra's determination for peace. . . so her and Corlys then pledged to fight in her war?

I'm starting to understand why Dany didn't have a saddle on GOT. It looks much cooler without one. The saddles look like go-karts. 

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6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Nope, neither Erryk nor Arryk nor any other KG did swear an oath to Aegon II in episode 9.

By the way - great that they actually show the KG are not robots who just continue to serve every king who is takes the throne. Steffon Darklyn swore vows both to Jaehaerys I and Viserys I and then to Rhaenyra in the show ... and we can expect that every KG also does repeat his vow to the new monarch who takes the crown so that it is clear to them and the monarch that they are now absolutely beholden to the new monarch.

People have been contesting this notions for years and years - good to see that Condal and his writers actually saw reason there.

That does not make any sense

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

It is a change while not really being a change change, since neither Gyldayn nor any of his sources actually do claim to know what the hell happened in the sky. They know that Arrax was killed and they assume Luke didn't survive the fall despite the fact that no corpse was ever found.

I think one can best compare it to Daemon not deflowering Rhaenyra yet later owning the assumption/belief that he did. Aemond didn't want to kill Luke in the show, but will own the fact that he did.

Because in the end he did kill him. He didn't have to chase Luke, it was his choice.

And I actually like the fact that dragons are shown to be neither horses nor pets. They are not to be trifled with. If you work them up, get them angry, and fuel them with your own hateful emotions ... then they will act. I expect that this won't happen at all that often, but there it actually did make sense.

 

It definitely resonates with Viserys' statement on dragons earlier this season, "a power men should have never trifled with". I think it also gives both Aemond and the Dance a complexity it didn't have before.

Luke's death is more tragic because he actually had escaped Vhagar, it was Arrax who attacked her. Dragons are fearless and will fight to the death, not matter the cost. Vhagar must have been so offended by the little dragon even daring to attack her that she said: f*ck this.

On the other hand, it keeps on with the whitewashing of certaing Green characters, like Aemond and Alicent. Which I like, but I can also understand certain people will have problem with it

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13 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

What's your take on Aemond not wanting to kill Luke and losing control of Vhagar?

To me it's the most significant change they've made to the book story, even more than Alicent's.

I think it gives Aemond depth but also deprives him of agency. He basically starts the DoD by accident.

I like it though, show Aemond didn't seem half as mad as his book version.

Honestly, not a fan of making it an accident. They did the same with Alicent misunderstanding Viserys’s dying words and is a cop out.  Aemond holding a grudge for his lost eye and taking an opportunity to kill Luke is in keeping with his personality (and not totally unreasonable). 
 

otherwise, loved the episode.

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5 minutes ago, zajaz said:

Seeing DxR stans being salty brings me life, not going to lie. Imagine if the show choose to make Nettles Daemon's "true love". That will be a glorious day, I swear.

Yeah, but the actress will need to stay off of social media then. There's no way she won't be getting endless hate from angry shippers.

12 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Math must not be your strong suit. It's <

Don't worry, I double-checked my work ;)

 

I'm glad that they kept the part with the Seven-Pointed Star. Aegon the Conqueror made a point of adopting the Faith of the Seven, which Aenys similarly followed and his children fully embraced. Even for Rhaena, a maverick by all accounts, there are several mentions in FnB about her praying for guidance in times of need.

 

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47 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Now why the TV show makes Ser Erryk Cargyll an oathbreaker? when the greens crowned Aegon II, they must have made King's knights to swear an oath of fealty, and Ser Erryk Cargyll  must have taken it, then why would he steal the crown and fled to Dragonstone ? In the original novel Ser Erryk Cargyll and his brothers were Knights honorable to their bone, he should never do such a dreadful things to dishonor to himself

They're not oathbreaking scum who betrayed their one true queen? :)

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2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m not sure how I feel about the way they changed Luke’s death. On the one hand, it being an accident fits more with this version of Aemond, who is much more dutiful and deferential to Alicent, and obviously realizes just how stupid it is to kill an envoy. At the same time, him chasing Luke around on his dragon and not expecting it to end in bloodshed is also really stupid, and he acts like such an over-the-top villain that having the show then go “see, it was really all an accident!” feels both goofy and manipulative.

I think he was chasing Luke just for fun, but he also wanted his eye for real. He probably thought Luke would stop and ask for forgiveness or something like that, and then he would take his eye and leave.

There's still 3 or 4 times in which Vhagar actually attacks them and he didn't seem to care much. So it feels a little bit off.

On the other hand, I like that Arrax, despite being a baby, attacks Vhagar. It's an example of how fearless dragons are. And I can understand Vhagar being like: you f*cked up

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9 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I feel like they should have introduced the idea that they don't have full control over the dragons before this. There was Visery's speech in the first episode but I didn't take that literally.

I kind of like that it wasn't Aemond's intention to murder his nephew and that it just got out of hand. I can buy that dragons aren't used to fighting other dragons and share their riders animosities but not the self control to not straight up try to murder each other.

Are we assuming he didn't want to kill him?

Because, he was chasing him down.

What did people think he thought would happen? That he'd pull over and surrender?

No, he meant to kill him and the dragon knew it.

I think he was amazed at his own handiwork.

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13 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, but the actress will need to stay off of social media then. There's no way she won't be getting endless hate from angry shippers.

It's sad and pathetic that people get harassed for just doing their work... but, on the other hand, awful as it is for the one actually experiencing it, being the cause of Daemyra (cringe name) stans salty tears is a mark of honor, IMO.:rofl:

Edited by zajaz
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2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Are we assuming he didn't want to kill him?

Because, he was chasing him down.

What did people think he thought would happen? That he'd pull over and surrender?

No, he meant to kill him and the dragon knew it.

I think he was amazed at his own handiwork.

According to Ryan Condal on the Inside Episode, he didn't want to kill him, just scare him: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXseQNtkDYU

I think him losing control of Vhagar and his face at the end makes it clear he was just trying to scare him/go for his eye.

Edited by Ingelheim
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1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Are we assuming he didn't want to kill him?

Because, he was chasing him down.

What did people think he thought would happen? That he'd pull over and surrender?

No, he meant to kill him and the dragon knew it.

I think he was amazed at his own handiwork.

Pretty sure you're mistaken. They say as much on the inside the episode thing. I think he thought he'd make him shit his pants.

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9 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Are we assuming he didn't want to kill him?

Because, he was chasing him down.

What did people think he thought would happen? That he'd pull over and surrender?

No, he meant to kill him and the dragon knew it.

I think he was amazed at his own handiwork.

Then why was he yelling for Vhagar to stop, mate? I think it's safe to assume that, like it or not, (Show) Greens (except maybe Aegon) are less evil that their book selves.

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Definitely a better episode than the previous one. Emma D’Arcy's acting was a highlight.

I liked that Daemon was more unhinged, though still in keeping with how his character has been shown. Hopefully, now some people will shut up about how he’s always made to look heroic. Nice subtle callback to the early relationship between him and Viserys. Viserys may not have seen Daemon as his heir at any point, considering he didn’t tell him about Aegon’s dream. Another nice nod with Daemon holding the crown, perhaps recalling the last time he held the crown. Matt Smith has certainly done a lot of good acting without dialogue this season.

I approve of making Aemond a grayer character, though not quite sure if the scene with Luke was the one to do it. Though really, he still did a lot of bad, he’s not a half-hero or anything.

It’s moments like these, Vhagar going rogue and the weird Daemon-Vermithor scene, that I wish GRRM had made his dragons speak like Tolkien. :P

And speaking of Tolkien, the Velaryons’ initial reluctance and then Corlys’s pledge to Rhaenyra felt similar to Theoden’s “and Rohan shall answer” but definitely less epic. That being said, once again the quiet scene between Corlys and Rhaenys was a solid moment in the episode like other such scenes.

The dragon fight was pretty good. A lot of good tension buildup, making it feel very horror movie like when Luke was trying to just get as far from Storm’s End as possible. I also enjoyed the scene with Borros between him relying on his maester to read the message and the near book dialogue and Aemond demanding an eye.

Overall, I liked a lot about this season, though it’s not without its flaws. They need to rely less on shock moments and just lay the groundwork well for when violence needs to occur. Excellent acting from all the main cast, and even the secondary cast, good visuals, great music, and good worldbuilding. While we got fewer locations than in GoT season 1, I felt the show was grander, between scenes like the tourney, the kingswood hunt, Aegon’s coronation, and just the landscape of King’s Landing.

I look forward to season 2. HotD >>>>> RoP.

Edited by Corvinus85
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I liked the "change" (as pointed out, nobody knows if it's really a change, because there were no witness to the actual fight- show Aemond so far has not been murderous, just a prick).

I don't think they're whitewashing anyone- as pointed out numerous times, the book is based on conflicting and in many cases biased stories. It also just makes more sense to have the characters keep escalating in awfulness as the war wages on. Season 1 Aemond won't be a ruthless murderer spreading terror throughout the Riverlands, s03 will be.

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