[Spoilers] Episode 110 Discussion

[BlackLightning]

28 minutes ago, Steelborn said:

Casterly Rock and Highgarden being generic castles from medieval Spain was literally criminal. Makes me wish HotD would just retcon both locations, if we ever get to see them on the show.

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't they the same generic castle from medieval Spain?

The only difference is that they had their CGI team put Highgarden on a hill and Casterly Rock on a cliff. Same generic location however.

Ugh.

7 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

So the Dance will start because of an accident lol this must be a joke 

Yeah I didn't like that either.

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Regarding Daemon choking Rhaenyra, I thought it fit with this version of the character. As I've said before, there's no coming back from murdering your wife. I'm glad the showrunners were willing to show how inevitably toxic this marriage would become.

That said, I thought the placement was really weird. Choking someone is something you'd expect to happen in the heat of a raging argument, not between two people disagreeing in low voices. It also completely alters the very first line of dialogue we received from HOTD: "Dreams didn't make us kings, dragons did."

A lot of people are upset that they cut a scene of Daemon having a meltdown on the beach (there were photos of it leaked during filming). But I think that was the right choice considering the decision to use the choking scene. Showing Daemon's grief could be humanizing, but it also runs of the risk of making what just happened about Daemon's manpain. "He only choked her because he was so upset!"

And now that you remind me, that's another thing I haven't really liked about this season.

They seem to be constantly writing and shooting scenes that give Daemon greater dimensionality and depth...only to cut them out in post-production. Like the scenes of Daemon comforting and encouraging his daughters, removed so that we would only see Daemon walking away as they cried.

 

I think they should've left in the scene where Daemon is having a nervous breakdown on the beach after the stillbirth of the baby princess. Yes, a few people would make it about Daemon's manpain but...let's be real. The man just lost his brother and his daughter within days of each other and his brother's last will and testament was disregarded by his sister-in-law who proceeded to steal the birthright of his wife. That's a lot for anyone to go through, especially since said wife is being so slow to act.

Choking Rhaenyra out of anger because she isn't as rageful and active as he is makes sense for the character.

GRRM talks about how Daemon was the best and worst of men all wrapped up into one. We should see that and feel conflicted about him like everyone else in Planetos did at the time.

 

[butterweedstrover]

1 minute ago, Corvinus85 said:

I'm glad that at least you acknowledge others view the show differently from you. 

Well yeah but their positions are indefensible. Saying Alicent is nuanced because she is reluctant to overthrow Rhaenyra is stupid because she is not reluctant to overthrow Rhaenyra, she just thinks that. Her emotions and Behavior don't line up with that. 

If you have a character who does something objectively bad for no reason and does not veer from that course ever under any circumstance we might call her mentally challenged, but not nuanced. 

Aemond being cool doesn't mean anything if he is just an asshole. 

And Rhaenyra, my god Rhaenyra. This insufferable human has greater decency than Winne the Pooh. Nothing can get her to show an ounce of anger, conceit, vengeance, cruelty, or spite even in the most deserving of situations. Honestly I would scream in her position but she has LESS complexity than a Disney princess. Because at least Disney Princesses have to overcome their own biases and grow as people.  

[Minsc]

1 minute ago, C.T. Phipps said:

You mean being book accurate?

No, sorry, you're right. They softened Aegon by not making him a pedophile.

Isn't the only person that suggest that about Aegon is Mushroom that easily least reliable source and who wasn't even in King's Landing at the time.

[C.T. Phipps]

Seriously, I would pay good money to HBO for "Director's Cuts" of every episode.

[Leticia Stark]

15 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

One accident and one misunderstanding. 

From “Dany kinda forgot about the ships” to “Aemond chased Lucerys but didn’t want to kill him, it was an accident ”

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Minsc said:

How has making Aegon a rapist that watches blood sports involving children softening him up?

....He's got a pretty boyish face?

7 minutes ago, zajaz said:

Suggesting the opposite triggers him... so he had to gently caress his silly wife to remind her of that fact.

Pretty sure Daemon was more pissed that Viserys - plus his father and grandfather - never told him.

[zajaz]

10 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

You mean being book accurate?

No, sorry, you're right. They softened Aegon by not making him a pedophile.

That was according to Mushroom, wasn't it? The same source that claim that Rhaenyra had Alicent and Helaena sold to a brothel? If she ends up not doing that in the show, the Green stans would claim that Rhaenyra was whitewashed.

[C.T. Phipps]

Just now, Minsc said:

Isn't the only person that suggest that about Aegon is Mushroom that easily least reliable source and who wasn't even in King's Landing at the time.

Yes but Mushroom is also someone who has access to sources the others don't.

Also, this is something I've noticed.

Whenever Mushroom suggests Rhaenyra is a whore, cheated on her husband, cheated with Criston Cole, and mothered three bastards--it's never complained about and that's fine when on screen.

Whenever Mushroom says something awful about the Greens, everyone thinks he's unreliable and baseless in his accusations.

[Minsc]

Just now, DMC said:

....He's got a pretty boyish face?

I don't see that as softening him anymore than them not making Rhaenyra fat being an example of them softening her.

[zajaz]

8 minutes ago, DMC said:

....He's got a pretty boyish face?

Pretty sure Daemon was more pissed that Viserys - plus his father and grandfather - never told him.

Could be. Maybe part anger for being kept in the dark, and part anger for focusing so much on prophecies when there is a war ready to explode.

[butterweedstrover]

6 minutes ago, zajaz said:

 

I took it as Daemon is just a dangerous asshole that does not like being told something that goes against what he (thinks) knows is true. From his point of view, all the talk about dreams and signs is just bogus. Real power comes from taking action. Suggesting the opposite triggers him... so he had to gently caress his silly wife to remind her of that fact.

She was saying crazy shit, like the psychos who stole my throne should just have it because of some dumb prophecy which would require her to take the throne (unless she wanted to go have a chit chat with the rapist brother and fill him in). Granted they only did this, not for narrative reasons, but to reassure audiences that her heart is incapable of vice. 

When you pull out and see how insane she is being, the scene makes more sense. But then again she doesn't mean any of it, Rhaneyra was never going to accept the bargain. 

[C.T. Phipps]

Just now, butterweedstrover said:

She was saying crazy shit, like the psychos who stole my throne should just have it because of some dumb prophecy which would require her to take the throne (unless she wanted to go have a chit chat with the rapist brother and fill him in). Granted they only did this, not for narrative reasons, but to reassure audiences that her heart is incapable of vice. 

When you pull out and see how insane she is being, the scene makes more sense. But then again she doesn't mean any of it, Rhaneyra was never going to accept the bargain. 

She might have if she found out no one supported her claim.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Minsc said:

I don't see that as softening him anymore than them not making Rhaenyra fat being an example of them softening her.

It was a joke.

[Leticia Stark]

20 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Regarding Daemon choking Rhaenyra, I thought it fit with this version of the character. As I've said before, there's no coming back from murdering your wife. I'm glad the showrunners were willing to show how inevitably toxic this marriage would become.

That said, I thought the placement was really weird. Choking someone is something you'd expect to happen in the heat of a raging argument, not between two people disagreeing in low voices. It also completely alters the very first line of dialogue we received from HOTD: "Dreams didn't make us kings, dragons did."

A lot of people are upset that they cut a scene of Daemon having a meltdown on the beach (there were photos of it leaked during filming). But I think that was the right choice considering the decision to use the choking scene. Showing Daemon's grief could be humanizing, but it also runs of the risk of making what just happened about Daemon's manpain. "He only choked her because he was so upset!"

The problem with the scene didn’t serve to anything to the story other than to bring shock value. You see, the showrunners didn’t comment about it in the behind of the episode, like, it was nothing just like Rhaenyra did nothing about it afterwards.

I’m just waiting that they’ll commit war crimes together next season and people will forget about it lol

[Minsc]

Just now, C.T. Phipps said:

Yes but Mushroom is also someone who has access to sources the others don't.

Mushroom wasn't even in the same city as Aegon II when Viserys was dead.  Why would he know where Aegon II was when they found him?  What sources would Mushroom, a fool, have to know where Aegon really was?

 

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Whenever Mushroom suggests Rhaenyra is a whore, cheated on her husband, cheated with Criston Cole, and mothered three bastards--it's never complained about and that's fine when on screen.

Well, Mushroom actually lived with Rhaenyra so he would actually know her better.  Moreover, I doubt they are going to use Mushroom's takes on Rhaenyra.  For example, I don't remember them showing Daemon teaching Rhaenyra how to sexually please men.

[Leticia Stark]

19 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

In the Inside the Episode, Ryan Condal confirmed that Aemond didn't plan on killing Luke, but also implied that Aemond may claim he did when he returns to King's Landing.

Interesting, I wonder if they’ll show the party Aegon throws for him for it.

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

 

Whenever Mushroom suggests Rhaenyra is a whore

In the show, she isn't a whore. In fact she is only sexually active with one man per marriage.  

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

, cheated on her husband

In the show, she doesn't, Leanor cheats on her if anything. 

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

cheated with Criston Cole

She went to Cole AFTER Daemon left her. The period of one day when they were seeing each other Rhaenyra never did anything. 

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

, and mothered three bastards

Assuming she cheated on her husband, which she didn't changing the context of this statement. 

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

--it's never complained about and that's fine when on screen. 

Because none of it was. Just like she never screams over Alicent's betrayal or demands vengeance, because she is hardly even a human being but a celestial being unaffected by the fall of man. 

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Whenever Mushroom says something awful about the Greens, everyone thinks he's unreliable and baseless in his accusations.

Well you know, it'd be nice if someone on the Greens could be a half decent human being and not a total scum bag, but I guess that is too much to ask for. 

FYI: Making Aemond accidentally kill Luke or having Aegon not be a full on pedophile don't account as redeeming qualities. If I told you Ted Bundy didn't also eat his victims, it wouldn't add moral nuance to his actions or motives. 

[BlackLightning]

5 minutes ago, Minsc said:

How has making Aegon a rapist that watches blood sports involving children softening him up?

It's not.

However...

1. Aegon is buckling under the pressure that his mother and grandfather's expectations are putting upon him...expectations that are as crazy as they are dangerous. Like they are literally creating raging tempests in teapots on the behalf of Aegon. To become the poster child for treason and treachery and war is frightening. Aegon feels so crushed by it that he is driven to tears and drink.
2. Because Aegon feels deeply unloved...and he's right. His unfortunate personality is part of the reason why he is not beloved, but his mother's paranoia and his father's sickness-induced distance only make things worse.

Those two things soften Aegon.

Also, Aegon doesn't want the Iron Throne. Like who runs away from what should've been the best day of their life?

 

Speaking of Aegon talking about not wanting the Iron Throne, I love how the showrunners and writers of HoTD are constantly throwing shade at D&D. Because they are doing such a masterful job of showing what not wanting throne or a lordship means and what it does to people. Instead of seeing Jon Snow walk around like a robot parrot going on and on about "Idunwonit," we see Aegon cry, rage, drink himself into stupors and try to run away as if his very life depended on it...we see Rhaenyra question and brood and bemoan and bristle and beg...and then we see Lucerys give very good reasons why he shouldn't be heir to Driftmark as his voice cracks...

 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

In the show, she isn't a whore. In fact she is only sexually active with one man per marriage.  

She isn't a whore in the books either.

[Leticia Stark]

Someone here said that the audience didn’t have time to care about Luke, meanwhile I agree the kids got less screen time, I have to say the Rhaenyra-Luke scene from earlier in the episode did it’s job of showing how loving his relationship with mom was and (most of) the audience cares about how Rhaenyra feels (as of now, at least).

My cousins cried a lot while we were watching here, it was really sad watch him go that way and Emma killed the scene when Rhaenyra finds out, when she puts her hands in her belly oh god, amazing. 
She was the best part of the episode imo