[Spoilers] Episode 110 Discussion

[slant]

23 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Omg!Omg!OMG! 
I. 
Love.  
You.

You are an artist sir! You have made my dreams come to life! Thank you!

Could you do the farting stuff? I really want to see Otto try to talk to Rhaenyra on the bride at dragonstone. Only to have to constantly restart each sentence as Syrax keeps farting. I imagine all the accompanying men gagging and coughing. “It’s in me mouth!”. Retching over the bridge. Otto turns to look at Syrax. Syrax innocently stares up at the sky. Pretending like she doesn’t know what she’s doing. 

Hahahahaha, okay will try! 

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

3 hours ago, slant said:

Lol, here you go! Hope it is close to what you visualised. 

It’d be funny to watch her birthing scenes on an endless loop. Or the actual length of child birth.

Its just so brutal. I can’t imagine what it would be like. The pain. The blood. The suffering. To be an innocent little vagina….Man makes me feel guilty all those times I pretended to put a condom on…almost.  

Its funny because I sympathize with the vagina, and not a fellow female human. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Isn't season 2 supposed to start exactly where this one ended?

I dunno but I don't see why that matters.  The difference will be in her characterization, not necessarily in the events.  Also, while I know everyone's hoping for no more time skips, they still need to age up Joffrey, Aegon the Younger, and Viserys if they are to have anything resembling their roles in the books.

[LordBolton'sLeech]

38 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

As for Cole, yeah I concede that was in the book, but it doesn’t change the fact that the book going from him being another screw in the Alicent/Rhaenyra rivalry to him being a loser without agency reinforces their grand plan: 

Blacks good, Greens bad.

I mean if they went with what he said in the Council in the books, it's something along the lines of "that slut Rhaenyra and her husband are going to turn KL into a big old brothel". Which doesn't exactly make the Greens look BETTER since I don't think "she sleeps around too much" is a comprehensive objection to her adequacy as a queen. 

ETA: Especially since the most flattering descriptions of Aegon have him being super lecherous. So there's that hypocrisy that just points to misogyny in the Greens. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by LordBolton'sLeech

[frenin]

After watching the whole season... Don't you think that the Velaryon plot would have been far more easier and coherent if Rhaenys and Corlys just... loved the Strong kids like in books?

 

[bendean3]

Long time lurker. First time poster.

but, in all seriousness…did butterweed read the same book as the rest of us? I genuinely wonder if he read the book at times when I’m reading his comments 

[LordBolton'sLeech]

2 minutes ago, frenin said:

After watching the whole season... Don't you think that the Velaryon plot would have been far more easier and coherent if Rhaenys and Corlys just... loved the Strong kids like in books?

 

I mean I don't think Corlys treated the Strong kids any worse than his own son? I mean he hasn't shown any overt love for the Strong boys despite defending them as his trueborn grandsons and being kind to them. And Rhaenys did cite their possible deaths as a reason to not sit the conflict out (in case the Greens killed them). But flip side, Corlys did force his son into an unhappy marriage that if he empathised with his kid a little more he should have known does not work -at all-. 

[BlackLightning]

didn't work

Edited October 24, 2022 by BlackLightning

[Elaena Targaryen]

9 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

I absolutely loved it. Best of the season for me, probably.

I do prefer this part of the story - the second half of the season - much more and it delivered. Honestly, if they had omitted the first 5 episodes, and made the other 5 into 8 or 10 episodes, I think a lot of issues on the show could have been resolved, namely regarding the supporting characters and plot points that are very undercooked or were quickly dealt with and forgotten, and reduce the amount of time skips/actor changes in such a short amount of time.

Either way, I felt they did a good job with this season.

Oh I absolutely loved the second half and wanted more. More Harwin, all the kids (both ages) and Velaryons. I would have liked to see reactions to Rhaenyra marring Daemon. I think spending more time here could highlight how it was such a bad idea for Rhaenyra to stay away from King's Landing. She should have been there to take a part in running the kingdom, being there for her ailing father, and trying to form bonds with her siblings. 

Even so, I'm grateful we get Rhaenyra and Alicents' childhood friendship since I don't see many female friendships portrayed, let alone one being the focus. It's even better imo when they feel disappointed and betrayed through the years to the point of estrangement yet they are still shown to love each other. Unforgivable lines may have been crossed and still they truly don't wish the other harm. That's realistic.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

From the way it was portrayed, I got the impression that Rhaenyra is already at the "Jace's death hardened her, burning away her fears, leaving only her anger and hatred." stage after the death of Luke. it's like they've fast-tracked things a bit.

It was clear since episode 2 that they would never go with 'Rhaenyra whines in her bedchamber for an entire year', so it was clear that she would be much more active and, presumably, more determined.

Although I imagine that Blood and Cheese will have an effect on her, making her more cautious and less aggressive, considering that there is no chance that she would ever command the murder of her little nephew ... much less the brutal torture of Helaena and Alicent.

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Agreed, I noticed that too.  As for which one she'll try to claim, I mean, based on the show and ignoring what happens in the books, you'd think it'd Vermithor (or whichever one Daemon was singing to, did they actually confirm that was Vermithor?).  The next most logical one would be Seasmoke.  I think including Rhaena in the sowing should complicate who gets whom compared to the books.  If she does claim a dragon, you'd think she'd get right of first refusal (or attempt, I guess) until she claims one.

It was confirmed that it was Vermithor.

If they don't want to change the setup from the book - which they shouldn't - I think the Grey Ghost would be the best candidate since his death is the most pointless dragon death of all. They could also switch things around so Rhaena mounts Vermithor or Seasmoke or Silverwing, meaning that, say, Ulf ends up with the Grey Ghost rather than Silverwing.

But I'd prefer it if Rhaena ended up with the Grey Ghost ... that could work easily enough if she ended up hearing his call kind of like her mother and Aemond both heard Vhagar's song. Technically they should put her forth as a dragonrider even before a general call for dragonseeds goes out - after all, she is the only (nearly) grown-up Targaryen in the Black camp who lacks a dragon - meaning she would have first choice among all the dragons. But those things are mysterious so 'fate' could lead her to the Grey Ghost's lair before she tries Silverwing or Vermithor.

Seasmoke being on Driftmark still is then likely going to Addam of Hull (or a returned Laenor) since Rhaena would not likely leave Dragonstone - where she has her pick of unclaimed dragons - to try out the one dragon left on Driftmark.

Not going with Vermithor/Silverwing being with the Two Betrayers would be too much of a change, I think, and if there were to be action in the Vale having some Black dragonriders there could be explanation enough to help postpone the attack on KL again and again.

I'd imagine that we will have some Black dragonriders also in the Reach when fighting starts there. It actually makes no sense that Baela or Jace would sit on their hands all the time while Daeron and Tessarion subdue all the Black Reach lords. We can also expect that they or Rhaenyra also join Daemon at Harrenhal occasionally, so there is continued interaction between the main characters.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Technically they should put her forth as a dragonrider even before a general call for dragonseeds goes out - after all, she is the only (nearly) grown-up Targaryen in the Black camp who lacks a dragon - meaning she would have first choice among all the dragons.

Yep that was pretty much my point.  And in that vein, I think she would try the dragons that have had previous riders before trying the wild ones.  Including Seasmoke.  He may be on Driftmark but if Daemon can rouse Vermithor, presumably one of the adults could go get him - probably Rhaenys.  That's why I don't think she should get Grey Ghost - it suggests she failed or didn't prioritize the top three candidates.

I agree the two betrayers should have Jaehaerys and Alysanne's old dragons, so I guess that leaves Addam with Grey Ghost.

[butterweedstrover]

45 minutes ago, LordBolton'sLeech said:

I mean if they went with what he said in the Council in the books, it's something along the lines of "that slut Rhaenyra and her husband are going to turn KL into a big old brothel". Which doesn't exactly make the Greens look BETTER since I don't think "she sleeps around too much" is a comprehensive objection to her adequacy as a queen.  
 

Isn’t it? I mean showing a total lack of regard for sexual norms would make her bad queen.

45 minutes ago, LordBolton'sLeech said:

ETA: Especially since the most flattering descriptions of Aegon have him being super lecherous. So there's that hypocrisy that just points to misogyny in the Greens. 

Ehh, I imagine they thought they could rein him in whereas Daemon and Rhaenyra didn’t have any such influences.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

Isn’t it? I mean showing a total lack of regard for sexual norms would make her bad queen.

Yikes.  I didn't know this was bible camp.

[LordBolton'sLeech]

4 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Isn’t it? I mean showing a total lack of regard for sexual norms would make her bad queen.

Ehh, I imagine they thought they could rein him in whereas Daemon and Rhaenyra didn’t have any such influences.

I don't think that was Martin's intent. To suggest that she should have been more cautious with her sex life but it's fine because Aegon can totally be reigned in. I think he intended to show a clear double standard and a hypocrisy with morals.

But also I do not think her regard for sexual norms has any bearing on what kind of queen she would be. Because that's ridiculous. Having a lover because your husband is gay and definitely does not enjoy bedding you is pretty reasonable. She could have been smarter regarding the children but I don't think it effects how good of a queen she'd be. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by LordBolton'sLeech

[butterweedstrover]

36 minutes ago, bendean3 said:

Long time lurker. First time poster.

but, in all seriousness…did butterweed read the same book as the rest of us? I genuinely wonder if he read the book at times when I’m reading his comments 

I did read it, but I feel like we are losing the important fact: 

Saint Rhaenyra is an invention of the show. Book Rhaenyra had jealousy, anger, and hate towards Alicent plus a predisposition for paranoia with the deaths of the people who posed a danger to her ascension (Harwin, Laenor, Vaemond). 

The show takes significant pains to absolve her of any culpability (direct or indirect) while keeping her emotions static and without any human failings (despite her best friend stealing her throne and dedicating twenty years to slander her name). 

[Khloey]

5 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Isn’t it? I mean showing a total lack of regard for sexual norms would make her bad queen.

2 minutes ago, LordBolton'sLeech said:

But also I do not think her regard for sexual norms has any bearing on what kind of queen she would be. Because that's ridiculous. Having a lover because your husband is gay and definitely does not enjoy bedding you is pretty reasonable. She could have been smarter regarding the children but I don't think it effects how good of a queen she'd be. 

 

Yep, If we start making assumptions on how good a king or queen would be based on their sexual behaviour and proclivities, we won't get out of the woods until a Republican party emerges in Westeros.

[butterweedstrover]

4 minutes ago, LordBolton'sLeech said:

I don't think that was Martin's intent. To suggest that she should have been more cautious with her sex life but it's fine because Aegon can totally be reigned in. I think he intended to show a clear double standard and a hypocrisy with morals. 
 

I agree about Martin. But it would be a sound perspective for Criston Cole to hold.

4 minutes ago, LordBolton'sLeech said:

But also I do not think her regard for sexual norms has any bearing on what kind of queen she would be. Because that's ridiculous. Having a lover because your husband is gay and definitely does not enjoy bedding you is pretty reasonable. She could have been smarter regarding the children but I don't think it effects how good of a queen she'd be. 

I mean there are things like chastity, religious institutions, and tradition that holds weight among the lords. If Daemon and Rhaenyra were to openly whore around that would cause trouble. 
 

I agree about her having no choice, but that was something the show made explicit whereas the book might have suggested a lack of effort on her part and a desire for sexual indulgence. The show doesn’t have her being indulgent at all.

[butterweedstrover]

1 minute ago, Khloey said:

Yep, If we start making assumptions on how good a king or queen would be based on their sexual behaviour and proclivities, we won't get out of the woods until a Republican party emerges in Westeros.

It would make perfect sense for Cole to think it’d constitute her being a bad queen, especially considering the standards of the time.

[DMC]

Cole's Green Council comments conclude with the homophobic (and nonsensical) remark that even the boys wouldn't be safe because "we know what Laenor was."

[LordBolton'sLeech]

It's pretty telling that you would read "she gained some weight in her pregnancy" as "well clearly she was physically unappealing and became super jelly of Alicent." Like wtf? The books didn't mention anything about physical attraction, just weight gain? And Harwin was still into her, I don't think she was lacking in dudes going for her??

I don't think that is at all something we're supposed to take at face value. That she was jealous of Alicent because she was hotter or whatever. Human beings are a lot more complicated than that. Women don't just attack eachother because the other is hotter, there is always something else going on.