[Spoilers] Episode 110 Discussion

[zajaz]

35 minutes ago, frenin said:

Do those peasants have names?

That's what i thought.

Don't worry, mate; soon enough (hopefully) everyone will remember the names of "the Shepard", "Hobb the Hewer", "the Burning Knight", among others.

Edited October 24, 2022 by zajaz

[The Bard of Banefort]

I’m behind on this thread, but did anyone find the sparring scene between Jace and Luke really weird? I get that Jace wants to toughen his brother up, but it just seemed so absurdly aggressive.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

In addition to Blacks vs. Greens, we're undoubtedly going to get a big Daemon vs. Aemond rivalry among fans, with them endlessly claiming that their guy is the most popular HOTD character. I'm going to try to enjoy the chaos. 

Ah, the big Daemond debate. I do wonder what the discussion will be like now that Daemon is no longer the internet's boyfriend.

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, zajaz said:

Personally, I'm kinda hoping for the storming of the dragonpit (nonsensical as it was in F&B). I never really understood why people seem to love these huge fire-breathing chickens the way they do. It's like they value the lives of these animals way more then the lives of the many peasants and people they burned alive.

Because they're animals. If the image of Silverwing nudging Vermithior's wing to try to get him to fly again doesn't evoke emotion in you you might be dead inside. There's something incredibly tragic about a ~200 year old dragon fighting it's ex-mate to the death because of the conflict between their current riders. 

It's not like the dragons are independently torching villages, that's all people. 

57 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

<snip>

Oh hey I'm able to like your posts now for whatever reason! I don't, though. 

[Lady Anna]

37 minutes ago, Adaneth said:

I hope we're having better wigs season 2. lol

But I personally thought only Matt Smith's most recent wig was bad. The others were fine.

[Lord Varys]

58 minutes ago, Adaneth said:

The time jump also doesn't help because we don't know how the relationship between these children instead of improving, at least try to, got worse. But it is clear that when we see them as young adults there is no affection. Things are irreparably bad. 

Regardless, they are family still. And the kinslayer taboo is very strong in Westeros, as would, one imagines, the memory of King Viserys and his insistence on peace.

I mean, while he failed at ensuring that his grandsons and sons loved each other ... this isn't the same as them wanting to kill each other.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Helaena had the best wig, probably because she has pale blonde hair in real life so it fits her complexion well.

[Adaneth]

Also, can we have Aemond without the eyepatch in S2? He doesn't need it. That artificial eye looked awesome. 

 

 

[Tha_Prince_Ali]

Quote

Her sexual escapades are very different in the book and the in the show. The show makes it clear her duty to the realm is beyond question and her sexual activity is not a betrayal of anyone except those who are irrational zealots.
 

It’s about framing. In the book her escapades lead to the death of Harwin, Laenor, Vaemond, and potentially more. You can absolve her as much as you want but that is speculation on your part, not reality. 
 

She puts a target on them by having bastards while in the show Harwin’s death because his brother is hand, Laenor lives happily ever after, and Vaemond is killed because he calls the princess a whore in front of the whole court for something that wasn’t her fault. 

A 10 year-long relationship with one man who is also the father of your three children is not a "sexual escapade". 

It's also odd to accuse somebody of choosing "speculation not reality" when your own assertion that Rhaeneyra is complicit in the deaths of Harwin and Laenor is itself speculation. We're given several potential suspects in both cases. You're clearly set on a specific interpretation and that's totally valid. However your interpretation is not fact. 

The show's interpretation where Larys kills his brother and father is literally in the book. It's just as valid as your interpretation. 

 

Quote

Seriously DMC, that’s not an in depth reason. It’s not psychological, it’s not even a motivation. How much did Rhaenyra even put into this marriage? Your reading of the book is seriously debilitated by the desire to pick and choose what you see.  

Laenor going off to High Tide isn’t a sign Rhaenyra was a dedicated wife to him. She might have ignored him and that is all her actions suggest

 

I'm not sure why Rhaeneyra's "dedication" to Laenor (or vice versa) is a point of argument at all. What constitutes dedication in a marriage is for each individual couple to decide. Rhaeneyra's "job" in this marriage is to be Laenor's cover not his doting wife. What exactly are the expectations here? Why are we moralizing this?

[butterweedstrover]

8 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Oh hey I'm able to like your posts now for whatever reason! I don't, though. 

Yeah, that happened a few days ago, don’t know why. Feel free to use the laugh emoji if I say something you don’t like.

[Lord Varys]

5 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Because they're animals. If the image of Silverwing nudging Vermithior's wing to try to get him to fly again doesn't evoke emotion in you you might be dead inside. There's something incredibly tragic about a ~200 year old dragon fighting it's ex-mate to the death because of the conflict between their current riders.

That never happened with Silverwing and Vermithor, though. Silverwing stayed out of Second Tumbleton completely, presumably because her rider was in a drunken stupor and nothing pushed her to care about what transpired, while Seasmoke and Tessarion had their weird mating dance thing which was then interrupted by a Vermithor who was running amok ... presumably once he sensed the death of his rider, Hugh, who was murdered by Bold Jon Roxton some time after Addam Velaryon had started the attack.

I think the Arrax-Vhagar clash does make sense with the book dragonlore in mind. The riders control the dragons to a point, but in a battle scenario the dragon's fighting instincts would take over. You can give them general directions, one imagines, especially when attacking humans, castles, ships, cities ... but in a battle with another dragon(rider) it can and should also get personal between the dragons in question.

Even more so, one imagines, if the dragons can sense that their riders really hate each other and actually want each other.

[Adaneth]

4 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

But I personally thought only Matt Smith's most recent wig was bad. The others were fine.

Velaryons look terrible. I don't know what was going on with Daemon either. In some episodes looked okay in others just bleh...the last couple of episode looked fine.

[RumHam]

Just now, Lord Varys said:

That never happened with Silverwing and Vermithor, though. Silverwing stayed out of Second Tumbleton completely, presumably because her rider was in a drunken stupor and nothing pushed her to care about what transpired, while Seasmoke and Tessarion had their weird mating dance thing which was then interrupted by a Vermithor who was running amok ... presumably once he sensed the death of his rider, Hugh, who was murdered by Bold Jon Roxton some time after Addam Velaryon had started the attack.

I think the Arrax-Vhagar clash does make sense with the book dragonlore in mind. The riders control the dragons to a point, but in a battle scenario the dragon's fighting instincts would take over. You can give them general directions, one imagines, especially when attacking humans, castles, ships, cities ... but in a battle with another dragon(rider) it can and should also get personal between the dragons in question.

Even more so, one imagines, if the dragons can sense that their riders really hate each other and actually want each other.

I read the same book you did, I know it was most likely an invention of the singers. That doesn't remove the image of it from the readers mind. 

[nara]

17 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m behind on this thread, but did anyone find the sparring scene between Jace and Luke really weird? I get that Jace wants to toughen his brother up, but it just seemed so absurdly aggressive.

I thought he was toughening him up because they both saw how good Aemond is and he guessed that a confrontation would eventually happen.

Also, it will make for some excellent guilt when he realizes how tough he was on his little brother and that he was the one who volunteered them as envoys.

7 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

But I personally thought only Matt Smith's most recent wig was bad. The others were fine.

Rhaena (or Baela—I can’t keep track) is going to need worker’s compensation due to neck pain from her massive wig.

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, RumHam said:

I read the same book you did, I know it was most likely an invention of the singers. That doesn't remove the image of it from the readers mind. 

Oh, I completely buy that it happened. Even more since Silverwing and Vermithor never actually fought.

[Tywin's Wallet]

Finale was great. 

The scene with Aemond and Luke reads different in the book, but I don't mind it at all. It still feels like Aemond is a malicious person and made his big first kill just to satisfy his ego. Even if it was an accident it doesn't matter, he taunted Luke intentionally. There was 100% intent to harm. 

I understood there was subtext in the book page that Alicent sent Rhaenyra, I wonder if she was trying to tell Rhaenyra to not take the deal that Otto offered and literally get on a boat with her family and escape Westeros because Alicent knows that Otto would just kill her and her kids even if she accepted the terms. 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Tywin's Wallet
context

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, Tha_Prince_Ali said:

A 10 year-long relationship with one man who is also the father of your three children is not a "sexual escapade".  
 

Well yeah. If she was cheating it would be however that is not how the show framed it.

2 minutes ago, Tha_Prince_Ali said:

It's also odd to accuse somebody of choosing "speculation not reality" when your own assertion that Rhaeneyra is complicit in the deaths of Harwin and Laenor is itself speculation. We're given several potential suspects in both cases. You're clearly set on a specific interpretation and that's totally valid. However your interpretation is not fact

No, I’m not saying she was involved, only that her actions led to them dying. If she never had bastards or an affair all of them would be alive. 
 

The show, unlike the book, makes it clear that not only did they die for different reasons not involving her, but that her actions never came from a place of selfishness or lack of effort ruining any potential moral failing on her part.

2 minutes ago, Tha_Prince_Ali said:

 

I'm not sure why Rhaeneyra's "dedication" to Laenor (or vice versa) is a point of argument at all. What constitutes dedication in a marriage is for each individual couple to decide. Rhaeneyra's "job" in this marriage is to be Laenor's cover not his doting wife. What exactly are the expectations here? Why are we moralizing this?

In the context of the discussion if she didn’t care about Laenor, cheated on him and ignored his value to her, then she would be valuing her own pleasure over the realm. 

But the show says that not only was she a loyal wife his ‘death’ was mutually agreed to provide him with solace and to protect her claim against a verifiable lunatic. In the book her rivalry with Alicent was much less one sided and more self-destructive. In the show it is common sense to defend herself against Alicent’s irrational jealousy.

[RumHam]

5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Oh, I completely buy that it happened. Even more since Silverwing and Vermithor never actually fought.

Oooh you meant they never fought? I was talking about Vhagar and Caraxes in that second part I should have made that more clear. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Judging by Rhaenyra's last shot in the episode, she's totally out for revenge. I'm even beginning to wonder whether she'll be the driving force behind Blood & Cheese on the show.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[RumHam]

45 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m behind on this thread, but did anyone find the sparring scene between Jace and Luke really weird? I get that Jace wants to toughen his brother up, but it just seemed so absurdly aggressive.

He learned how to train kids from ser criston.